sway bars
sway bars
Well i'm looking to buy some thicker sway bars and but i'm not sure which ones to buy. Theses are the ones i'm contemplating on.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ST-FRONT ... dZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GODSPEED ... dZViewItem
http://www.drivewire.com/PerformancePar ... rkits.html
http://www.globalperformanceparts.com/i ... 99_795_813
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ST-FRONT ... dZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GODSPEED ... dZViewItem
http://www.drivewire.com/PerformancePar ... rkits.html
http://www.globalperformanceparts.com/i ... 99_795_813
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They help reduce body roll in turns and improve handling. Here is a link that will explain it better. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question432.htm So does anyone have a suggestion on which ones to go with.
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Get the spring rates you want and the shocks you want or a comparable coilover setup and then do sway bars. A lot of people slap on bars then dial in a spring/shock when it should be the other way around. The sway bars are like the bandaid to the suspension setup imo.
I don't know what you have done for suspension thus far but when looking at sway bars, pay careful attention to the thickness of the bars.
I don't know what you have done for suspension thus far but when looking at sway bars, pay careful attention to the thickness of the bars.
PFFT..no way.. your coilovers only do 'so much'...sdtouge wrote:go with good coilovers and you wont "need" sway bars
get swaybars, and even go for the powerbrace and you'll experience a phenomenal feel in ride difference and control. Even just the powerbrace does so much more for the rigidity of your front end...
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well said.GBorrelli wrote:Sway bars and struts or coilovers serve different purposes. Unless you plan on having a straight line vehicle sway bars are an integral part of a vehicle's suspension. However, properly matching the struts/coilovers and sway bars is a bit of a challenge, but yields great results.
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I'm leaning towards this one. What do u guys think? I don't have coilovers I have the tokico blues the ones they sell on ebay with springs 4 $400. I was thinking of going with megan coilovers, but I have decided to stick with these. http://www.drivewire.com/PerformancePar ... rkits.html
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they look good and they seem to include enlinks unlike the other lower pice barsrauc22 wrote:I'm leaning towards this one. What do u guys think? I don't have coilovers I have the tokico blues the ones they sell on ebay with springs 4 $400. I was thinking of going with megan coilovers, but I have decided to stick with these. http://www.drivewire.com/PerformancePar ... rkits.html
and that its good
whatever you get, let me know how you like it because i also run tokiko blues with tein Stech and wil be doing swaybars after the brakes
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I know they're not cheap, but largus bars with spherical bearing endlinks FTW. www.splparts.com
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i disagree, sway bars just make it closer to solid axle and lessen body roll. with good coilovers youll have no body roll if you take your dampning off super soft.8-bit wrote:PFFT..no way.. your coilovers only do 'so much'...sdtouge wrote:go with good coilovers and you wont "need" sway bars
get swaybars, and even go for the powerbrace and you'll experience a phenomenal feel in ride difference and control. Even just the powerbrace does so much more for the rigidity of your front end...
i dont have sway bars (about to take my oem rear off), and i have no body roll.
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Sway bars are essential to have if you want to have a cornering car. I noticed a BIG difference when I put on a larger set of sway bars. I already had good coilovers on top of that. The thing is if you go with too stiff of a sway bar, it would be like a solid axle, where the energy would transfer to the other wheel when you would hit a bump or go over a rough road. Some of that is good, keeping the opposing control arm down makes for a more stable car. The key is finding the balance.
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is this guy kidding? coil overs is just the 1st phase of working on your suspension... coils are great but then you want sway bars etc... perhaps with good sways and coils you wont need strut tower braces (more for show)... but even after that if you get pillow tension rods up front and start working on the rear (RUCA, Tierods etc.) you can make your car feel super stiff...sdtouge wrote:go with good coilovers and you wont "need" sway bars
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i have full links
i have stiff coilovers
you dont need sway bars
i have no body roll, this is a 3rd gear drift for proof
i think dialing in your alignment and a roll cage should come before sway bars. sway bars just kinda seem like a cheap bandaid to body roll, they arent gonna make you go faster.
i have stiff coilovers
you dont need sway bars
i have no body roll, this is a 3rd gear drift for proof
i think dialing in your alignment and a roll cage should come before sway bars. sway bars just kinda seem like a cheap bandaid to body roll, they arent gonna make you go faster.
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(tie rods go in the front)artdoesart wrote:is this guy kidding? coil overs is just the 1st phase of working on your suspension... coils are great but then you want sway bars etc... perhaps with good sways and coils you wont need strut tower braces (more for show)... but even after that if you get pillow tension rods up front and start working on the rear (RUCA, Tierods etc.) you can make your car feel super stiff...sdtouge wrote:go with good coilovers and you wont "need" sway bars
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i heard coilovers destroy your ride as well though- if i were to go with a medium stiffness springrate, and get sway bars would i be able to keep driveability and have a good setup for drifting keeping in mind this is my daily driver. what other things should i be looking into, like ajustable pillow rods and controlarms? thanks im kinda a noob at drifting.
/nice drift btw.
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sdtouge wrote:(tie rods go in the front)artdoesart wrote:is this guy kidding? coil overs is just the 1st phase of working on your suspension... coils are great but then you want sway bars etc... perhaps with good sways and coils you wont need strut tower braces (more for show)... but even after that if you get pillow tension rods up front and start working on the rear (RUCA, Tierods etc.) you can make your car feel super stiff...sdtouge wrote:go with good coilovers and you wont "need" sway bars
i think he meant rear toe control arm.
Last edited by ka silvia on Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SDTouge - Drifting is hardly something to base suspension modifications on. Drifting is all about hard initial inputs and creating instant tire slip. If you want a good handling car you would not build it like a drift car, although the parts will be similar.
Sway bars do one central thing. They increase the roll resistance (roll rate) of the car. Because they increase the roll stiffness at one axle you will adjust the overall load transfer at that axle as well as the opposite axle.
In a right hand turn increasing the roll rate in the rear via a sway bar will do the following.
1. Increase LR tire load (due to roll resistance)
2. Decrease RR tire load (due to roll resistance)
3. Decrease overall FR / FL weight transfer
If the car was neutral before it will now tend towards oversteer because of the following.
1. Increasing rear outer tire load (increase in slip angle / possible overload)
2. Decreasing rear inner tire load (decrease in tractive force)
3. Decreasing front slip angle in relation to rear peak slip angle.
The rate at which the slip angle changes and ultimately the reaction of the car are based upon the dynamics of the tire and the overall change in roll resistance.
In context they are a final trim value to vehicle dynamics that have a great effect. The overall static spring rate of the car will dictate how effective a sway bar is. Because the higher rate springs limit travel you will tend towards a thicker sway bar. This is because you are limiting the overall rate that the sways apply by reducing their travel. I only say "tend" because there are many factors to take in accordance such as roll center, CoG, tire dynamics, weight split, etc. What works on one setup may be completely counterproductive in another.
Whiteline in my opinion has a good grip on sway bars. I just wish they'd make hollow bars like the Largus models.
Sway bars do one central thing. They increase the roll resistance (roll rate) of the car. Because they increase the roll stiffness at one axle you will adjust the overall load transfer at that axle as well as the opposite axle.
In a right hand turn increasing the roll rate in the rear via a sway bar will do the following.
1. Increase LR tire load (due to roll resistance)
2. Decrease RR tire load (due to roll resistance)
3. Decrease overall FR / FL weight transfer
If the car was neutral before it will now tend towards oversteer because of the following.
1. Increasing rear outer tire load (increase in slip angle / possible overload)
2. Decreasing rear inner tire load (decrease in tractive force)
3. Decreasing front slip angle in relation to rear peak slip angle.
The rate at which the slip angle changes and ultimately the reaction of the car are based upon the dynamics of the tire and the overall change in roll resistance.
In context they are a final trim value to vehicle dynamics that have a great effect. The overall static spring rate of the car will dictate how effective a sway bar is. Because the higher rate springs limit travel you will tend towards a thicker sway bar. This is because you are limiting the overall rate that the sways apply by reducing their travel. I only say "tend" because there are many factors to take in accordance such as roll center, CoG, tire dynamics, weight split, etc. What works on one setup may be completely counterproductive in another.
Whiteline in my opinion has a good grip on sway bars. I just wish they'd make hollow bars like the Largus models.
lol agreed.
if you ask me sway bars should be your first suspension mod. Going with coilover springs that are too stiff to compensate for a lack of sway bar stiffness is a bandaid. You can achieve a better handling car with more stability and road contact having adequate sway bars and less stiff spring rates, than ultra hard springs and no sway bars. If sway bars were as useless as people have posted here then exotic handling cars like a lotus, etc. would come without sway bars to reduce weight and make for a more independently functional suspension. Obviously a quality swaybar system has its merits, ask any autocroser.
As far as the largus bars go, those are overkill, and really only something I would recommend to a drifter. For someone who wants a car that handles well I would recommend tanabe bars. Good neutral sizing, chromoly construction, utilizes the good design of stock endlinks (unlike terrible whiteline endlinks) mandrel bent, and tubular instead of solid (such as ST bars) which reduces the overall weight while only reducing stiffness by ~5% with proper wall thickness. They are also very affordable.
if you ask me sway bars should be your first suspension mod. Going with coilover springs that are too stiff to compensate for a lack of sway bar stiffness is a bandaid. You can achieve a better handling car with more stability and road contact having adequate sway bars and less stiff spring rates, than ultra hard springs and no sway bars. If sway bars were as useless as people have posted here then exotic handling cars like a lotus, etc. would come without sway bars to reduce weight and make for a more independently functional suspension. Obviously a quality swaybar system has its merits, ask any autocroser.
As far as the largus bars go, those are overkill, and really only something I would recommend to a drifter. For someone who wants a car that handles well I would recommend tanabe bars. Good neutral sizing, chromoly construction, utilizes the good design of stock endlinks (unlike terrible whiteline endlinks) mandrel bent, and tubular instead of solid (such as ST bars) which reduces the overall weight while only reducing stiffness by ~5% with proper wall thickness. They are also very affordable.
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notice how alot of drift cars are grip cars too? a drift car IS setup like a grip car. unless youre a newb when you try to get a oversteery car on purpose, you really want a nuetral if not understeery car so you can floor it longer, just like in grip nuetral or understeer, both easier to control..Nismo_Freak wrote:SDTouge - Drifting is hardly something to base suspension modifications on. Drifting is all about hard initial inputs and creating instant tire slip. If you want a good handling car you would not build it like a drift car, although the parts will be similar.
Sway bars do one central thing. They increase the roll resistance (roll rate) of the car. Because they increase the roll stiffness at one axle you will adjust the overall load transfer at that axle as well as the opposite axle.
In a right hand turn increasing the roll rate in the rear via a sway bar will do the following.
1. Increase LR tire load (due to roll resistance)
2. Decrease RR tire load (due to roll resistance)
3. Decrease overall FR / FL weight transfer
If the car was neutral before it will now tend towards oversteer because of the following.
1. Increasing rear outer tire load (increase in slip angle / possible overload)
2. Decreasing rear inner tire load (decrease in tractive force)
3. Decreasing front slip angle in relation to rear peak slip angle.
The rate at which the slip angle changes and ultimately the reaction of the car are based upon the dynamics of the tire and the overall change in roll resistance.
In context they are a final trim value to vehicle dynamics that have a great effect. The overall static spring rate of the car will dictate how effective a sway bar is. Because the higher rate springs limit travel you will tend towards a thicker sway bar. This is because you are limiting the overall rate that the sways apply by reducing their travel. I only say "tend" because there are many factors to take in accordance such as roll center, CoG, tire dynamics, weight split, etc. What works on one setup may be completely counterproductive in another.
Whiteline in my opinion has a good grip on sway bars. I just wish they'd make hollow bars like the Largus models.
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