sway bars

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rauc22
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sway bars

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Post by Craving4Boost »

what does sway bars do and how does it do it? Oil pan jobs would be so much easier without them...
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rauc22
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Post by rauc22 »

They help reduce body roll in turns and improve handling. Here is a link that will explain it better. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question432.htm So does anyone have a suggestion on which ones to go with.
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Post by MattPowers »

go with good coilovers and you wont "need" sway bars
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Post by 97laxlude »

Get the spring rates you want and the shocks you want or a comparable coilover setup and then do sway bars. A lot of people slap on bars then dial in a spring/shock when it should be the other way around. The sway bars are like the bandaid to the suspension setup imo.

I don't know what you have done for suspension thus far but when looking at sway bars, pay careful attention to the thickness of the bars.
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Post by 8-bit »

sdtouge wrote:go with good coilovers and you wont "need" sway bars
PFFT..no way.. your coilovers only do 'so much'...

get swaybars, and even go for the powerbrace and you'll experience a phenomenal feel in ride difference and control. Even just the powerbrace does so much more for the rigidity of your front end...
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Post by GBorrelli »

Sway bars and struts or coilovers serve different purposes. Unless you plan on having a straight line vehicle sway bars are an integral part of a vehicle's suspension. However, properly matching the struts/coilovers and sway bars is a bit of a challenge, but yields great results.
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Post by 8-bit »

GBorrelli wrote:Sway bars and struts or coilovers serve different purposes. Unless you plan on having a straight line vehicle sway bars are an integral part of a vehicle's suspension. However, properly matching the struts/coilovers and sway bars is a bit of a challenge, but yields great results.
well said.
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Post by rauc22 »

I'm leaning towards this one. What do u guys think? I don't have coilovers I have the tokico blues the ones they sell on ebay with springs 4 $400. I was thinking of going with megan coilovers, but I have decided to stick with these. http://www.drivewire.com/PerformancePar ... rkits.html
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Post by lov2xlr8 »

rauc22 wrote:I'm leaning towards this one. What do u guys think? I don't have coilovers I have the tokico blues the ones they sell on ebay with springs 4 $400. I was thinking of going with megan coilovers, but I have decided to stick with these. http://www.drivewire.com/PerformancePar ... rkits.html
they look good and they seem to include enlinks unlike the other lower pice bars
and that its good
whatever you get, let me know how you like it because i also run tokiko blues with tein Stech and wil be doing swaybars after the brakes
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Post by nlzmo400r »

I know they're not cheap, but largus bars with spherical bearing endlinks FTW. www.splparts.com
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Post by MattPowers »

8-bit wrote:
sdtouge wrote:go with good coilovers and you wont "need" sway bars
PFFT..no way.. your coilovers only do 'so much'...

get swaybars, and even go for the powerbrace and you'll experience a phenomenal feel in ride difference and control. Even just the powerbrace does so much more for the rigidity of your front end...
i disagree, sway bars just make it closer to solid axle and lessen body roll. with good coilovers youll have no body roll if you take your dampning off super soft.

i dont have sway bars (about to take my oem rear off), and i have no body roll.
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Post by NiSilS14 »

Sway bars are essential to have if you want to have a cornering car. I noticed a BIG difference when I put on a larger set of sway bars. I already had good coilovers on top of that. The thing is if you go with too stiff of a sway bar, it would be like a solid axle, where the energy would transfer to the other wheel when you would hit a bump or go over a rough road. Some of that is good, keeping the opposing control arm down makes for a more stable car. The key is finding the balance.
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Post by MattPowers »

what coilovers do you have?
i couldnt even tell a difference when i put the oem rear on since s14 base models dont come with them.
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Post by rauc22 »

Sorry lov2xlr8 but I am just buying parts for my car now. I won't be able to actually test them until I get bk from Iraq mid 2007 :cry: I think they look good too and yes they come with all the mounting hardware.
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Post by lov2xlr8 »

no problem, you stay safe and i'll probably test them first and let you know how good they are :wink:

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Post by artdoesart »

sdtouge wrote:go with good coilovers and you wont "need" sway bars
is this guy kidding? coil overs is just the 1st phase of working on your suspension... coils are great but then you want sway bars etc... perhaps with good sways and coils you wont need strut tower braces (more for show)... but even after that if you get pillow tension rods up front and start working on the rear (RUCA, Tierods etc.) you can make your car feel super stiff...
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Post by MattPowers »

i have full links
i have stiff coilovers
you dont need sway bars
i have no body roll, this is a 3rd gear drift for proof
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i think dialing in your alignment and a roll cage should come before sway bars. sway bars just kinda seem like a cheap bandaid to body roll, they arent gonna make you go faster.
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Post by MattPowers »

artdoesart wrote:
sdtouge wrote:go with good coilovers and you wont "need" sway bars
is this guy kidding? coil overs is just the 1st phase of working on your suspension... coils are great but then you want sway bars etc... perhaps with good sways and coils you wont need strut tower braces (more for show)... but even after that if you get pillow tension rods up front and start working on the rear (RUCA, Tierods etc.) you can make your car feel super stiff...
(tie rods go in the front)
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Post by ispentallmymoneyontires »

i heard coilovers destroy your ride as well though- if i were to go with a medium stiffness springrate, and get sway bars would i be able to keep driveability and have a good setup for drifting keeping in mind this is my daily driver. what other things should i be looking into, like ajustable pillow rods and controlarms? thanks im kinda a noob at drifting.

/nice drift btw.
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Post by NiSilS14 »

sdtouge wrote:what coilovers do you have?
i couldnt even tell a difference when i put the oem rear on since s14 base models dont come with them.
I have stance GR+ pros with 9k/7k springs in. The oem rear is a pretty tiny sway bar. 16mm or 18mm if I remember right. my rear sway is about 30mm or so.
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Post by wcbjr »

Big swaybars are for track use where the pavement is flat with no bumps or dips. You want small swaybars for normal roads where you don't want the whole car to move if you hit a speedbump or pothole with one side of the car.
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Post by cheapster757 »

ispentallmymoneyontires wrote:i heard coilovers destroy your ride as well though
they destroy your ride? how??
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Post by Justin L »

sdtouge, more pics of your car :lol:
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Post by ka silvia »

sdtouge wrote:
artdoesart wrote:
sdtouge wrote:go with good coilovers and you wont "need" sway bars
is this guy kidding? coil overs is just the 1st phase of working on your suspension... coils are great but then you want sway bars etc... perhaps with good sways and coils you wont need strut tower braces (more for show)... but even after that if you get pillow tension rods up front and start working on the rear (RUCA, Tierods etc.) you can make your car feel super stiff...
(tie rods go in the front)

i think he meant rear toe control arm.
Last edited by ka silvia on Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Nismo_Freak »

SDTouge - Drifting is hardly something to base suspension modifications on. Drifting is all about hard initial inputs and creating instant tire slip. If you want a good handling car you would not build it like a drift car, although the parts will be similar.

Sway bars do one central thing. They increase the roll resistance (roll rate) of the car. Because they increase the roll stiffness at one axle you will adjust the overall load transfer at that axle as well as the opposite axle.

In a right hand turn increasing the roll rate in the rear via a sway bar will do the following.

1. Increase LR tire load (due to roll resistance)
2. Decrease RR tire load (due to roll resistance)
3. Decrease overall FR / FL weight transfer

If the car was neutral before it will now tend towards oversteer because of the following.

1. Increasing rear outer tire load (increase in slip angle / possible overload)
2. Decreasing rear inner tire load (decrease in tractive force)
3. Decreasing front slip angle in relation to rear peak slip angle.

The rate at which the slip angle changes and ultimately the reaction of the car are based upon the dynamics of the tire and the overall change in roll resistance.

In context they are a final trim value to vehicle dynamics that have a great effect. The overall static spring rate of the car will dictate how effective a sway bar is. Because the higher rate springs limit travel you will tend towards a thicker sway bar. This is because you are limiting the overall rate that the sways apply by reducing their travel. I only say "tend" because there are many factors to take in accordance such as roll center, CoG, tire dynamics, weight split, etc. What works on one setup may be completely counterproductive in another.

Whiteline in my opinion has a good grip on sway bars. I just wish they'd make hollow bars like the Largus models.
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Post by sloka-t »

pwned hahah
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Post by tastyratz »

lol agreed.
if you ask me sway bars should be your first suspension mod. Going with coilover springs that are too stiff to compensate for a lack of sway bar stiffness is a bandaid. You can achieve a better handling car with more stability and road contact having adequate sway bars and less stiff spring rates, than ultra hard springs and no sway bars. If sway bars were as useless as people have posted here then exotic handling cars like a lotus, etc. would come without sway bars to reduce weight and make for a more independently functional suspension. Obviously a quality swaybar system has its merits, ask any autocroser.
As far as the largus bars go, those are overkill, and really only something I would recommend to a drifter. For someone who wants a car that handles well I would recommend tanabe bars. Good neutral sizing, chromoly construction, utilizes the good design of stock endlinks (unlike terrible whiteline endlinks) mandrel bent, and tubular instead of solid (such as ST bars) which reduces the overall weight while only reducing stiffness by ~5% with proper wall thickness. They are also very affordable.
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Post by wcbjr »

What is bad about the Whiteline endlinks? I have not yet had a problem with them? You talking about the mounts?
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Post by MattPowers »

Nismo_Freak wrote:SDTouge - Drifting is hardly something to base suspension modifications on. Drifting is all about hard initial inputs and creating instant tire slip. If you want a good handling car you would not build it like a drift car, although the parts will be similar.

Sway bars do one central thing. They increase the roll resistance (roll rate) of the car. Because they increase the roll stiffness at one axle you will adjust the overall load transfer at that axle as well as the opposite axle.

In a right hand turn increasing the roll rate in the rear via a sway bar will do the following.

1. Increase LR tire load (due to roll resistance)
2. Decrease RR tire load (due to roll resistance)
3. Decrease overall FR / FL weight transfer

If the car was neutral before it will now tend towards oversteer because of the following.

1. Increasing rear outer tire load (increase in slip angle / possible overload)
2. Decreasing rear inner tire load (decrease in tractive force)
3. Decreasing front slip angle in relation to rear peak slip angle.

The rate at which the slip angle changes and ultimately the reaction of the car are based upon the dynamics of the tire and the overall change in roll resistance.

In context they are a final trim value to vehicle dynamics that have a great effect. The overall static spring rate of the car will dictate how effective a sway bar is. Because the higher rate springs limit travel you will tend towards a thicker sway bar. This is because you are limiting the overall rate that the sways apply by reducing their travel. I only say "tend" because there are many factors to take in accordance such as roll center, CoG, tire dynamics, weight split, etc. What works on one setup may be completely counterproductive in another.

Whiteline in my opinion has a good grip on sway bars. I just wish they'd make hollow bars like the Largus models.
notice how alot of drift cars are grip cars too? a drift car IS setup like a grip car. unless youre a newb when you try to get a oversteery car on purpose, you really want a nuetral if not understeery car so you can floor it longer, just like in grip nuetral or understeer, both easier to control..
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