Introducing Adaptronic Standalone, KA24DE-T

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Introducing Adaptronic Standalone, KA24DE-T

Post by NissanZealot »

I'm proud to own the very first Adaptronic 440 Select Plug-in ECU for the 240sx powered by a KA. I've had the privilege of helping in the production process for this engine management, and it has blown my mind in the early stages of my build, and since I know the name isn't really big out there, I'd like to boast about some of its capabilities.

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First, a few things about my build itself. I have a 96 KA24DE rebuilt with Supertech 8.4 compression 89.5mm oversized pistons, block bored .20 over, stock crank balanced, Eagle I-Beam forged rods, stock head, 1200cc JECS injectors, Evo FMIC, 46 trim Borg-Warner journal-bearing turbo.

One of the main things about this engine management that puts it above the rest, is that it tunes itself. The software is free on Adaptronic's website, so feel free to download it and check out some of the features yourself. I will eventually get up screenshots of my own tune as well as video of it in action. I apologize for the lack of that content, I really wish I had more media to share, but I do not right now.

Basically, you set up your target AFR at different RPM ranges, and start driving. I run with an Innovate LC-1 wideband, which is the ECU's main signal to tune off of. Of course, the ECU uses dozens of other signals as well, but it all comes down to reaching the taget AFR, which is all calculated by the wideband. The ECU will run rich naturally, to save it from detonation caused by running too lean, then gradually work its way toward your target AFR. Mine especially does this with the 1200cc injectors.

One of the other cool things about the Adaptronic is that it utilizes all the factory sensors, which means minimum sensor modification and therefore is more reliable. The only sensor that has been bypassed is the MAF, which is a painless modification, as the ECU runs off of an internal MAP sensor, which is more effective for the turbo application. I ran a vacuum hose from the intake manifold to a barb on the ECU itself and that was done! Calibration is as simple as pluging in the ECU, turning the key "On", and clicking the "calibrate" button on the computer screen.

As you go through the program, there are dozens of other mind-blowing features. For ultimate protection, you can set the ECU to cut either fuel or ignition when it reaches certain criteria, such as, too hot of operating temps, wastegate failure (overboost), when the knock sensor detects detonation, or simply rev-limiters under different conditions.

The ECU can also calculate which gear you are in based off of RPM and speed. This can be used along with an electronic boost controller to set up boost by gear, so you can run say, 7psi in first gear, but 20psi by the time you get to fifth gear. You can also set up traction and launch control based off of these signals.

Adaptronic makes it very easy to run a gasoline-powered car on ethanol as well. Since it tunes itself, it will tune the fuel map as well as ignition advancement/retardation as it needs, building a fuel map for ethanol just as it would for 92 octane gasoline. Or, you can make your car an actual FlexFuel race car by setting up an ethanol content sensor, to detect the ethanol concentration and adjust the fuel map and ignition accordingly. So say you run out of ethanol in the middle of nowhere, and have to switch back to 92 octane gasoline, you can just pump it in, and the ethanol sensor will report to the ECU that you have changed fuel octane, and it will switch back to a gasoline fuel map.

Also, you can see everything about how your car is running in real-time. As the engine is running, the ECU will display: RPM, exact engine temperature, manifold pressure, AFR, as well as many other data. You can watch it adjust your fuel map, using corsshairs on a table that displays AFR at different manifold pressures and different RPMs. As the AFR reaches the target AFR that you set it to, the table will turn green and save that data and operate at that AFR in that RPM range and manifold pressure. Unfortunately I havn't had the chance to get video of this happening. I have seen it work on my car and definitely felt the difference in how it pulls and how steady my AFR is at WOT. It seems every pull you do, the car runs smoother and pulls harder as the ECU tunes itself.

This is just scraping the surface of what Adaptronic is capable of, and as I progress further in my own build I hope to show off more and more. Every time I turn around I find more features of this engine management that blow my mind, and I like to help get the name out there. It is an advanced engine management, yet very user friendly, and worth every penny!
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Post by Empire087 »

Cost? Looks legit, and it would be awesome for my truck. Being obd2, I could easily setup my truck.
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Post by R34SR »

sounds too good to be true...very interested in seeing this running.
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Post by TheOne »

most of this stuff the AEM EMS already does, as well as other EMS systems. hopefully this 1 is a tad cheaper. nice to know there is more alternatives though.
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Post by 8-bit »

The price will tell me what its worth.

Autronic, with self tuning is around 3500.

Aem ems probably sucks at it, and is 1400.

I want to know what it costs. And, for me, the self tuning sounds fun but I gotta know if you can tune manually. I can't just trust some algorithm... I gotta be able to see what it comes up with and help if necessary....
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Post by airman »

A DIYPNP/MS system can do all of this and more, right? It seems like it would do just fine (I like the idea of gear-specific boost) but it would need to be mysteriously inexpensive for me to want to switch.

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Post by Super Coupe »

^

Would deff like to see what all this ECU can do and the price. I know MS have a **** ton of features, even ones you can add on. AEM is always a good choice for the price. I would never spend 3500-5000 on a ECU to run my KA lol, rude I know.

I wonder if you can wire up something for boost by gear with the MS. That would be so sick. I don't see how this would work with auto to manual cars though. I do not run any sensors on my trans. Plus a lot of people use single cam/s13 trannys in s14's and vice versa.

One thing I wish I would have known is the MSPNP has the knock feature which the DIYPNP does not. Would have been nice to have that. I plan on rigging up some headphones/det can down the road to listen for knock....
Last edited by Super Coupe on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by all shal perrish »

were in spokane do you live? im from there and moving back to liberty lake in 3 weeks, i would like to see this thing in person.
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Post by airman »

SuperCoupe, I know with Nistune it would display the speed provided by the speed sensor, but I haven't seen an output in MS for that. If there was/is, I'm sure it could be done.
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Post by emo_tactical9 »

MS3 can use a speed sensor or ABS sensor for speed.
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Post by jholman05 »

I liked my Nistmotronic so much we just got one for my dad's car...

Is it weird we now have so many ecu options?

When I got into this, it was rom ecus, calum and biki.... and we know which one was best.
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Post by tom550 »

I would like to see this in action.
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Post by kablammyman »

so, this just plugs into the stick ecu location with stock sensors? Interesting....but like everyone else, I would like to know the price.
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Post by z3nk1dr1ft »

MS can do self tuning to some extent and you can get an entry level setup for about $600 done correctly. I had it on my 24z with a turboed L28. The self tuning can set how fast it adjusts and the increments it adjusts. Would be curious on the price of this setup as well.
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Post by 240s-ex »

when are we going to find I price for this?!
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Post by joshpntbl07 »

google it. these standalones have been out for other motors. i saw 1500 for the plug and play somewhere. lots of info is already out there.
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Post by drinkingtwo40s »

8-bit wrote:The price will tell me what its worth.

I can't just trust some algorithm... I gotta be able to see what it comes up with and help if necessary....
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Post by shift_down »

joshpntbl07 wrote:google it. these standalones have been out for other motors. i saw 1500 for the plug and play somewhere. lots of info is already out there.
I dont understand why people kept asking about the price either.... The first time I saw this thread, I plugged it in google and found an approximate price of 1500$. Looks legit, I would invest in it if I was a baller.
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Post by sdaigle240 »

at that price, haltech or EMS2 all day.
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Post by Matt Cramer »

emo_tactical9 wrote:MS3 can use a speed sensor or ABS sensor for speed.
Correct, speed input is pretty straightforward with MS3. It can be done with MS2 but is a lot harder. The MS3 can use the VSS for traction control, boost by gear, etc.
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Post by airman »

Matt Cramer wrote:Correct, speed input is pretty straightforward with MS3. It can be done with MS2 but is a lot harder. The MS3 can use the VSS for traction control, boost by gear, etc.
You're totally right! Take the difference between the front and rear wheel speed and I guess reduce boost and/or timing in states where front wheel speed is a certain % slower than rear wheel speed.

Gotta try this...
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Post by 8-bit »

Airman: that idea is frikkin smart.

So, basically, if the diff in wheelspeed crosses a threshold, the ecu learns to reduce power in those exact condtions until the difference won't be caused.

That's cool.
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Post by schmauster920 »

Between the ABS sensor in the diff and RPM you have all you need for a clutch / wheel slip sensor.
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Post by NissanZealot »

Sorry guys, im in the military and have been away from this thread for awhile didn't expect for it to take off as much as it did. Ill be going one by one and pming you guys who are really interested with more specifics. Unfortunately i didn't get my car dyno ready in time so ill have to wait until spring again...
Most of the plug n plays are around $1500, they also have generic ecus for about the same price that you basically have to build your own whole engine harness but it does all the same things. My buddy did it with his SR but in my opinion nothing beats this plug n play. Not 100% sure yet since its still new on the market, but i think this one will be in the $2000 range.
I haven't had the aem computer in anything, but i do know its comparable to Adaptronic in capabilities, and honestly aem does do a bit more, but you pay for it. I definitely think this is the best buy between the two.
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Post by NissanZealot »

Alright guys, sorry again this might be a little late for those of you interested but the ballpark price on this specific plug n play is around $1350. Im not a licensed dealer or anything so that's not guaranteed. Let me know if you're really interested and i can point you in the right direction.
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Post by NissanZealot »

Another thing, next month i will get my laptop back with the program onvit and ill get some screenshots for some of the different features and explain them the best i can. Like i said i don't have any video of mine actually running as of now, but look around theres other people out there running if on their setups with the same program for the most part just on different cars. Its a very flexible system based on what you want to do with it, but very precise. The best part is the fact that this is a plug n play for the ka24de and harness.
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Post by O&Jperformance »

I actually looked at this ECU at this year PRI and very impressed with it.Ii have to look into it a little more since I'm more familiar with other systems.But over all is a great ECU for the price amd it should work better than half of the ECU out there for the KA.
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Post by NissanZealot »

OK, finally got my laptop back and can get some screen-shots of the program up!
First, theres the sensor calibration stage. You literally plug the 440 Select into your factory engine harness and plug your laptop up to it. While the triggering pattern for the ignition is already programed in, some other calibrations need to be done before you fire it up. Its really easy- for the throttle, you simply click the "Learn" button at no throttle, then push your pedal to the floor and click "Learn" for full throttle, and the ECU saves the voltage readings for those two positions and maps out the throttle position between based on the given voltage reading. As you pump the throttle you can see this reading in real time, too. This is aslo where you calibrate your other factory sensors, such as knock sensor, wideband, water temp sensor, air sensor (which I dont have), etc.
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Now, you are technically ready to start your engine. At this point you can set up other things in the "Corrections" tab. Here you can choose whether you want to run your ECU on an open loop or closed loop MAP, monitor your predicted MAP based on the current tune, as well as parameters for how the self-tuning works, whether Rapid-Learn or Slow Converge.
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Post by NissanZealot »

In the Tuning Modes tab you simply type in the volume of your fuel injectors and the ECU will map out the rest based on whatever your voltages should be running off of.

Digital Inputs is where you can get into some advanced setups. Here you can pin your own sensors into the factory harness and tell the ECU what the new readings are for, and learn what voltages indicate for that particular sensor. Here is where you can set up your traction and launch control toggle switches, turbo time-out, digital clutch signal, closed throttle, WOT, etc. Cool stuff.

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On to the Road Speed tab. More cool stuff. Like I said before, the ECU determines wheel slip by calculating the difference between RPMs and the speedometer reading from the transmission. You can set up how much slip you want to allow, when you want slip or not, rev limiter, or how you cut power to stop slip (whether fuel cut or spark cut). Just like in the calibrations screen, you can tell the ECU to learn certain speeds and gears, then use that saved data to set up the boost by gear. Beyond cool.

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Post by NissanZealot »

Of course, you can set up the duty cycle of your wategate based on an electric signal, so whatever weight spring you have on your wastegate (for instance mine is only 10lb) you can adjust with an electric signal how much vacuum actually is applied to your wastegate before it opens up, basically allowing you to run however much boost you want before the wastegate opens. This also eliminates the "seeping" effect, so your wastegate stays fully shut right up until the point you hit your desired boost, then opens wide up.

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It keeps getting better too. You can set your tune up to run only E85 or E100 if you want, and just run with that tune all of the time, or you can save a pump fuel map and an ethanol map separately and just load the right one when you switch fuels. Or, what I am working on doing and think is even better, is set the car to adjust the tune according to the ethanol concentration a sensor detects in case you have to mix fuels or switch unexpectedly. You can calibrate a FlexFuel sensor off of a domestic vehicle and set it in-line, then set up both tunes, and just like the TPS calibration, it calculates everything in between then adjusts the fuel map and ignition timing as you set it/ as its needed.

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