KA with 300 trq from 3k rpm

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landhauto
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KA with 300 trq from 3k rpm

Post by landhauto »

Anyone have experience with setups that generate 300+ WTQ at 3k rpms? Peak hp/trq dont matter to me nearly as much as maximizing lowend torque. Trying to build the most streetable and fastest setup possible with a reasonable budget, so stock block and rev-limit will be requirements and I want maximum area under the curve.

P.S. building a ka-t to beat my business partners SR build, we are having a sort of battle to build the fastest car possible by springtime.

So far I will be running:
Stock S13 ka rebuilt with stock bearings and rings
Cosworth HG and ARP's
Cast log manifold
Air-2-water (any info on frozenboost.com appreciated)
custom downpipe and home-built exhaust
Some user-tunable ECU (nismotronic, nistune, AEM...waiting to see what everything else costs first)
Z33 trans
most likely a welded diff for now

Turbo recommendations or any specific input on any of the above is greatly appreciated. Ive searched here and everywhere else and i have yet to see a dyno making 300 tq that soon but i know its possible.
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Post by emo_tactical9 »

High compression, E85 and a small-ish turbo like a T28.
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Post by landhauto »

Definitely planning on e85, and keeping charge piping as short and efficient as possible.
I just know the real comparison between our cars is gonna be street pulls and not dyno bragging so Im trying to get boost as soon as possible to get by him before he can spool, but I think a t28 is gonna be outgunned.

Anyone think a t3 or t4 inlet turbo can make the 13-15psi needed by 3k?
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Post by schmauster920 »

60-1 T3, e85 and lots of timing.

or

T4, E85 and 50 shot of nitrous to spool


I got boost before 3k without tuning the crap out of my low end. The T2s will limit your high hp.


A T3 will give you a fat powerband around 3-6000 rpm.. a T2 would prob be around 2000-5000

A larger turbo will always net more HP per PSI of boost. Plus you have more headroom to turn the boost up.

Just pick something that spools early enough to meet your spool goals. Boost comes on within a second if you mash it on the T3 above 3000rpm. T2 would be more of a supercharger effect.

You can always go ball bearing T2 or T3 to get the best of both worlds, but they arent cost effective.
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Post by Silviadream87 »

Save some money and don't buy a cosworth head gasket. For your power goals it's not really needed. You could put the money towards your Ecu. There are a lot of people on here using fel pro and others an pushing a lot of power.

I mean correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't sound like you'll really need it.
Always make sure the juice is worth the squeeze!!

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Post by schmauster920 »

+1 on felpro permatorque headgasket


There was a member on here that was running a felpro, it started leaking around 600 on hard pulls.. Youre going to be going with 11 or 12mm studs by then most likely
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all shal perrish
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Post by all shal perrish »

My block is o ringed with receiver grooves in the head, and I run a felpro head gasket and have pushed it to 35 psi on my hx40 (600+ hp) and never ever had an issue that is with just the normal ka head studs too, I have them torqued to 95 ft lbs (I know that seems high) but I've never had an issue
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Post by landhauto »

Thanks for the responses!

Ive had issues in the past with cometic gaskets (in various applications) and thats why i was leaning towards the cosworth but if the permatorque is holding up for you guys ill save the cash and go that way.

I just know I'm going to be limited to roughly 500whp without a built block so Im aiming to have the maximum power and torque as soon as possible. I have considered a small nitrous shot but with the tuning options available it seems I can either have meth control or nitrous control...someone please correct if this is wrong.

Anyone know what the highest hp t3 ka's are running on e85 and meth? I feel like I can get something in the 3076 range close to 500 and still spool before 3500, experience?

Maybe ill have to dip into mastercards pockets and order up a bw 6758 efr...

Just snuck a peak into the competitions engine room and it looks like Im up against at least eagle rods and cp pistons and 2 boxes from BC...no idea what hes doing for turbo or fuel system yet but if he doesnt have a vvl head this should be easy.
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Post by Super Coupe »

all shal perrish wrote:My block is o ringed with receiver grooves in the head, and I run a felpro head gasket and have pushed it to 35 psi on my hx40 (600+ hp) and never ever had an issue that is with just the normal ka head studs too, I have them torqued to 95 ft lbs (I know that seems high) but I've never had an issue
How much did you pay for the o ringing?
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Post by sdaigle240 »

dont you think you will need some pistons n rods at those levels, even with e85?

i have an hy35 that makes 18psi by 3500 so i would think a 3076 would be similar. not sure how high your going with the boost but depending, a 3071 may give more area under the curve.
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Post by landhauto »

3071 is seeming more and more like the way I'm gonna end up. Anyone seen a dyno of a 3071 on e85 and methanol? I figure ill end up in the low to mid 400's ideally to avoid the cost of built block for now. Eventually i'm going to build a spare block ive got on the engine stand already, I just want to get this thing on the road ASAP and have some fun and the -$3k and time to build the motor is just off the table at this time.
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Post by slidewayzagain »

Id be curious of the gtx3076 or join the holset crowd. hard to beat the bang for the bucks.
may your rods stay oiled and your nuts tight
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Post by sdaigle240 »

pyeah people just about make 400/400 on 20ish psi 93 octane hy35. on e85 with meth and a but load of timing that could be your budget turbo for sure.
airman wrote:I'm all about spreadsheets. Bitches love spreadsheets.
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Post by Chris28 »

Garret is supposedly releasing a gtx3067 pretty soon. The smaller exhaust housing will allow for a quicker spool time, and since it's a gtx series it will still make great power. It might also be more than your entire budget haha, the gtx turbos are expensive.
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Post by Kfred »

400-450whp budget turbo with decent spool...
Garret = 60-1 with t3 "stage 3" turbine wheel in 0.63a/r housing.
Holset = Hy35 or He341/He351

Don't get too caught up on low end torque, it will not win you any straight line races. Sure its nice to have the instant power underfoot for daily driving, but when it comes time to line up against your buddy's sr20 you are going to wish your peak torque occured higher in the rev band.

A hy35/50trim/60-1 ka-t is no slug around town. I never had any complaints about low end torque when I had my 50trim and stock cams.
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Post by all shal perrish »

I'm on a t3 housing with my turbo and I only run e85 no meth or secondary injection, I have bcv2 cams that have been degreed and I do have to say between having no boost at all until 4000+ rpm It is kind of a slug around town, however, when its on the highway it's a whole different animal, that and revving to 7500 rpm there is still a decent power band, so you just need to figure out we're your gonna be racing and what your going to do with the car after its done "racing"


And to whom asked how much the o ringing was, I have no clue, I bought this built motor used on this site I can tell you it's worth doing, I would lift the head on my old stock block setup with over 25 psi, and now I regularly push over 30 psi
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Post by jholman05 »

If we're looking for drag times my T28 with 12psi ran a 12.4 @ 110. Here in a week or two I'll be shooting for an 11 second pass at 15ish psi. Then again I think I'm coming close to reaching the maximum potential of this turbo.

Setup in sig.
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2012 - S14 KA, Nismotronic, GTi-R T28 12psi, Meth, PSM HMIC, DW550cc, N62, S15 HLSD, Spec 3, Fidanza = 12.4 @ 110
2013 - 9.0 Wiseco/Manley, Nismotronic, GT2876R 23psi, Meth, PSM HMIC, 850cc, N62, S15 HLSD, Z32 Spec 3, D21 Fidanza = ??.? @ ??? 440whp/380wtq
YouTube Channel -> http://goo.gl/MZ5EE
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Post by emo_tactical9 »

jholman05 wrote:If we're looking for drag times my T28 with 12psi ran a 12.4 @ 110. Here in a week or two I'll be shooting for an 11 second pass at 15ish psi. Then again I think I'm coming close to reaching the maximum potential of this turbo.

Setup in sig.
DANG! That is at 12psi?!?
I am running 10psi right now, on a very conservative tune. You used some drag radials?
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Post by landhauto »

The speed contest will probably be highway pulls from 20-30 roll and probably some backroads battles down a sick road we have over here that everyone calls 'the track'.

After "racing" this car will be my every-other-daily and most likely itll be getting beat up by everyone at the shop as an attitude adjustment tool.

Going with the HY would give me an AEM budget so thats a definitive plus in that respect.

What manifold are you running with the hy35 to get 18 psi by 3500? What about intercooler setup?
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Post by landhauto »

Nevermind sdaigle I just saw your build thread. Nice setup those charge pipes fit really nice.
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Post by sdaigle240 »

thanks dood. let me know if you have any questions. that manifold i have is no longer made, its a nice design too bad no one filled those shoes. with some placement improvements it would be perfect.
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Post by landhauto »

I'll have questions for sure, specifically I'm gonna start a tuning thread I think to get some info on the calumsult.

Are any of you guys running meth injection?
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Post by landhauto »

Seems you have the fab skills man, start banging those things out! If it fits a HY with stock booster I'll buy one.

What happened to the 3251? Didnt like it or never ran it?
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Post by sdaigle240 »

thanks man! i really enjoy fabbing stuff for sure. unfortunately i borrow the tools to fab so making parts for others has never come to light. that custom housing would be awesome to offer others though!

i ran the 3251 for a few seasons ~8-10,000miles and its a fun turbo. id say it way like a baby 50trim, spooled a little faster and made a little less power. i do think the hy spools as fast and makes more power though. eventually it got too much shaft play and was deemed beyond rebuild. seeing im made of timie not money they HY35+fab work rout worked for me. got my first one for $100 and second one for $300.

as for calum, do a search in the ECU section there is a huge calum thread which is exactly where i learned everything back in the day. put any discussion there, that thread needs revitalization. but all theory will directly apply to nistune and nismotronic, and even standalones for that matter (which it sounds like you already know).
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Post by jholman05 »

emo_tactical9 wrote:
jholman05 wrote:If we're looking for drag times my T28 with 12psi ran a 12.4 @ 110. Here in a week or two I'll be shooting for an 11 second pass at 15ish psi. Then again I think I'm coming close to reaching the maximum potential of this turbo.

Setup in sig.
DANG! That is at 12psi?!?
I am running 10psi right now, on a very conservative tune. You used some drag radials?
Yes 12psi, you can even see it in this video on the boost gauge spikes like 14psi for a split second then holds at 12psi. Tires are 26x10.5x15 MT ET Street bias ply slicks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9ZgJ6acYWQ&feature=plcp
landhauto wrote:I'll have questions for sure, specifically I'm gonna start a tuning thread I think to get some info on the calumsult.

Are any of you guys running meth injection?
Yes I am. AEM Meth Kit.

Also I have a S13 CalumRT ecu for sale if you're interested. $400
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2012 - S14 KA, Nismotronic, GTi-R T28 12psi, Meth, PSM HMIC, DW550cc, N62, S15 HLSD, Spec 3, Fidanza = 12.4 @ 110
2013 - 9.0 Wiseco/Manley, Nismotronic, GT2876R 23psi, Meth, PSM HMIC, 850cc, N62, S15 HLSD, Z32 Spec 3, D21 Fidanza = ??.? @ ??? 440whp/380wtq
YouTube Channel -> http://goo.gl/MZ5EE
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Post by emo_tactical9 »

I'm not sure about 300 ft/lbs at the wheels by 3k, even 240sxTTE didn't do that.
Here is his dyno
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Post by sdaigle240 »

i would suggest buying that ECU. you will not find a tunable ECU for cheaper. its about 200$ less than nismotronic/nistune and the main difference is software. gotta use seperate programs to map trace and log rather than being all integrated. but people have been doing it for years.

and for reference that dyno above was tuned for TQ so thats a great "best case" plot. the owner had HP restrictions in his class so he tuned for tq.
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