ka differences

Dream about your 240's turbo power in this forum.
Post Reply
pakii-afa
Learners Permit
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:29 am

ka differences

Post by pakii-afa »

hey guys im new to the forum and ive researched quite a bit in relations to differences between various ka's, and want to know more. i want to build aka24et, but i want to be unique at the same time (just who i am)
so feel free to flame my noob questions and whatever other dumb things i say or ask because flaming is fun :)

i have a stock ka24e from a 90(ithink) 240sx atm with 180xxx km on it

ok so as far as i know, (correct me if im wrong)
89 ka has 9.1:1 cr ratio with 2mm dome piston
90 ka has 8.6:1 cr ratio with 2mm dish piston
sohc ka's also dont have piston oil squirters and the crankshafts connecting rod journal is narrower than dohc.

so my noob questions are can i use a sohc head on a dohc block?
if not, can i put piston squirters in a sohc block, if not can i use a dohc crank in a sohc block.
im also looking into getting the bc fcw crankshaft (non stroker) if i go that route will i be able to use the squirters or will i have to delete them?

as far as i can tell even on stock internals i should be good for my wanted 250-300 hp.
but like i said, i want to be unique and get the best of compatibility there is. im also looking for the best reliability at that power possible for a daily driver.

im wanting to get head work like port and polish done, proper valve train, forged internals and keep researching since i dont know much about these things.
and ofcourse addons to back it all up.

so thats my dumb questions, let me know on what compatible options i have. i
thanks
ka-t240sx
Driving Mom's Station Wagon
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 9:49 pm
Location: canada

Post by ka-t240sx »

First thing id do is a compression test to see how healthy your motor is, unless you plan on rebuilding it.

250-300 is good on stock internals.
reliability lies in the tune. Bad tune = motor go KABOOM


For installing oil squirters on the ka24e block (someone correct me if i am wrong) but you'd have to send the block to a machine shop and they would have to tap into the oil passages, i remember reading a thread somewhere on here about someone doing it. I think it was SOHC 240SX who did it. :dunno:

As far as i know you are unable to put a sohc head on a dohc block. I don't know why you'd really want to do that anyways.
User avatar
schmauster920
Belongs To The TOP CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS!
Posts: 2612
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:25 pm
Location: CA

Post by schmauster920 »

You should be able to use your SOHC head on a DOHC block but it takes some work... just drop it on there and see what you have to do with the timing chain
D21, Built KA24DE, 740cc, T4, WeatherGuard Tool Box, Tial 40mm, Megasquirt 3 in progress
pakii-afa
Learners Permit
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:29 am

Post by pakii-afa »

yea i plan on rebuilding it, and thats why id want to throw a sohc head on a dohc block so i dont have to pay a machine shop to have piston squirters. ill try and find a dohc block soon and see what happens.

anyone know if i can still use piston squirters if get a fcw bc crankshaft?
User avatar
bmitchell_ga
Knows Some Stuff About 240's!
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:05 pm
Location: South GA

Post by bmitchell_ga »

I don't know if you just wanna have squirters or not, but there probably not nessicary. I remember alot of the dsm guys blocking there's off back in the day. Said less weight on the piston.
97 S14
329hp 320trq @ 13psi (on pump)
? @ 18psi (corn)

my build thread
viewtopic.php?t=51532&highlight=

*--------------------------------*
E85, obd I con, Nistune, HKS hi-power exh, Fidanza flywheel, ACT 6-puck, K-Sport coilovers, Holset hy-35 turbo, Turbo Smart 38mm wastegate, HKS bov, JGS mani, mm's, & oil line kit, AMS fuel kit w/ 95pd inj's, lc-1 wb, Driveshaft Shop DS, Greddy profec b
User avatar
schmauster920
Belongs To The TOP CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS!
Posts: 2612
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:25 pm
Location: CA

Post by schmauster920 »

I think its a preference thing, if you want oil squirters or not in the DSM world.

If you could get the machine work for cheap i would do it, but not if its going to cost a bunch..

You might be able to get a different exhaust manifold and a KA24DE for the cost, or it might not be that bad, all you can do is ask and show them, so they dont think its more complicated than it is and over quote you
D21, Built KA24DE, 740cc, T4, WeatherGuard Tool Box, Tial 40mm, Megasquirt 3 in progress
User avatar
supakat
SuperMod
Posts: 8018
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:13 pm
Location: FL

Post by supakat »

With the BC stroker kit, you have to block the pissers. As for stock stroke with FCW, I am unsure. No documentation on their site. You will just have to try and see.
12.96 @ 116.36 - 2.1 60ft - 11/2011
13.1 @ 114 - 2.3 60ft - 8/2012
KA24DE-T
Image
Build thread/Blog
YouTube Channel
User avatar
500hpKA240sx
Encyclopedia-Nissan
Posts: 1100
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:37 pm
Location: Bourbon, MO

Post by 500hpKA240sx »

stock crank shaft is way way way more than capable of 250-300hp/tq. UNLESS your shooting for this kind of power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoD_lzmP ... qA&index=7

you dont need no 2000 dollar crank shaft... you can swap heads and you can put a single crank in a dual but you have to cut it down....so in other words, its a lot of work to swap heads best bet is to get a long block of either single or dual cam ka and go from there. also the oil squirters are not really important b/c i know on v8s they dont have them, my old school muscle car loving dad was shocked when he seen that my little 4 banger had them.

this is for dual cam but still basically the same. and for reliability goes, its going to depend more on your tune than anything else.

viewtopic.php?t=57570
viewtopic.php?t=53160&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Paul Walker- 1973-2013 Race In Paradise. you will be forever missed
User avatar
supakat
SuperMod
Posts: 8018
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:13 pm
Location: FL

Post by supakat »

Piston squirters are there to cool down the piston. In n/a, yes it is over kill but when you boost, the cylinder pressures increase hence hotter cylinders so squirters will help cool pistons and essentially help prevent detonation or stop your pistons from melting.

Now, forged pistons do not have the galleys like cast stock pistons but anything to cool down the piston is beneficial imo. Nissan always over builds their motors so by them having squirters means something in my book.
12.96 @ 116.36 - 2.1 60ft - 11/2011
13.1 @ 114 - 2.3 60ft - 8/2012
KA24DE-T
Image
Build thread/Blog
YouTube Channel
User avatar
500hpKA240sx
Encyclopedia-Nissan
Posts: 1100
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:37 pm
Location: Bourbon, MO

Post by 500hpKA240sx »

supakat wrote:Piston squirters are there to cool down the piston. In n/a, yes it is over kill but when you boost, the cylinder pressures increase hence hotter cylinders so squirters will help cool pistons and essentially help prevent detonation or stop your pistons from melting.

Now, forged pistons do not have the galleys like cast stock pistons but anything to cool down the piston is beneficial imo. Nissan always over builds their motors so by them having squirters means something in my book.

+1
absolutely agreed
viewtopic.php?t=53160&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Paul Walker- 1973-2013 Race In Paradise. you will be forever missed
wannabethestig
Knows Some Stuff About 240's!
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:57 pm
Location: Silverdale Washington

Post by wannabethestig »

All hail the piston squirters!
My wife "haven't you spent enough time and money on that car yet?" my answer "no"

The build thread-> viewtopic.php?t=58421&highlight=
pakii-afa
Learners Permit
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:29 am

Post by pakii-afa »

Ok so I calle bc and they said that the non stroker fcw ka24de crank is 1750 usd roughly and shipping is surprisingly only 95 dollors and it does NOT require you to delete the squirters.but it is still out of the question for me.

Now my plan is to remove the head off my sohc motor and find a dohc bottom end and see what I need to retrofit it, I also called a few nissan dealers and they all said that the crank between the e and the de is the exact same :s not where I hear about the journals but ill end up figuring that out after I get the bottom end.

So my questions have been answered pretty much. Thanks guys :)
pakii-afa
Learners Permit
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:29 am

Post by pakii-afa »

last question i do have actually is whats the compression ratio if i use de pistons and sohc head. my guess is it would around 7.5:1
User avatar
500hpKA240sx
Encyclopedia-Nissan
Posts: 1100
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:37 pm
Location: Bourbon, MO

Post by 500hpKA240sx »

this isnt exactly what you asked but its good info
viewtopic.php?p=336049&sid=fbbaed473b9f ... 22beaa3dc1

also anything less than 8/8.5:1 comp is worthless you will lose so much N/A power its not even funny so being turbo your n/a till about 3k and to make high horse power you would have to have one hell of a turbo to make any power....imo
viewtopic.php?t=53160&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Paul Walker- 1973-2013 Race In Paradise. you will be forever missed
User avatar
YadPwns
Knows Some Stuff About 240's!
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:19 pm
Location: Miami,Fl

Post by YadPwns »

supakat wrote:Piston squirters are there to cool down the piston. In n/a, yes it is over kill but when you boost, the cylinder pressures increase hence hotter cylinders so squirters will help cool pistons and essentially help prevent detonation or stop your pistons from melting.

Now, forged pistons do not have the galleys like cast stock pistons but anything to cool down the piston is beneficial imo. Nissan always over builds their motors so by them having squirters means something in my book.
Ka24de have piston oil squirters correct?
95 S14 240SX KA-T

Godspeed 50 .63 A/R Trim T3/T4
Godspeed Cast Iron Manifold
Godspeed 38mm External Wastegate
Godspeed Type RS BOV
Agency Power Boost Controller
AEM Wideband UEGO
Isis KA24DE Intercooler Kit
Aeromotive 340LPH Fuel Pump
370cc Fuel Injectors
Efi Specialties Ecu (370cc , Stock MAF tune)
Megan Racing Motor and Transmission Mounts
eBay Fuel Pressure Regulator
User avatar
supakat
SuperMod
Posts: 8018
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:13 pm
Location: FL

Post by supakat »

Yes, they are stock.
12.96 @ 116.36 - 2.1 60ft - 11/2011
13.1 @ 114 - 2.3 60ft - 8/2012
KA24DE-T
Image
Build thread/Blog
YouTube Channel
pakii-afa
Learners Permit
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:29 am

Post by pakii-afa »

it doesnt answer my question, but it is interesting knowledge, im probably looking at custom pistons for the motor anyways, or good quality sohc pistons too, not sure yet, if im going to the trouble of having oil squirters id want to utilize them as efficiently as possible or it seems like a wasted effort.

and im still curious to know what cr is anyways so if anyone knows, thank you lol
User avatar
500hpKA240sx
Encyclopedia-Nissan
Posts: 1100
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:37 pm
Location: Bourbon, MO

Post by 500hpKA240sx »

viewtopic.php?t=53160&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Paul Walker- 1973-2013 Race In Paradise. you will be forever missed
pakii-afa
Learners Permit
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:29 am

Post by pakii-afa »

So I didn't feel like starting a new thread but sorry for being up an old one.

I've got a few myths to answer.

From what it looks like, the heads are swap-able.

I picked up both motors and got working on them last weekend. I stripped the DE first to see how things were on it, then started stripping the E to see how those things would work/fit.

Besides the main stuff u need to swap out like the head for instance,
You would need the following to swap a E head onto a DE block
DE block, crank, rods, flywheel, main pulley
E head, pistons, modified timing cover, timing chain, chain sprocket and helical gear for oil pump, chain guides and tensioner, oil pan, distrubutor, oil pump and alternator bracket.

The sohc uses an external oil pump, so the pick up line is located differently, thus the timing cover needs to be modified to have a functional oil pick up.

I don't have pictures yet but will eventually, when I've got everything fully figured out and I start building it.

Also I have not taking the sohc head off of the motor yet so I will still have to confirm the passages lining up or not, they should since the head gasket part numbers are the same.

Ill be uipdating this every once in a while
Last edited by pakii-afa on Mon May 27, 2013 1:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
drunknmunky
Knows Some Stuff About 240's!
Posts: 448
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:13 pm

Post by drunknmunky »

there are a lot of guys down in australia that drive u12's with sohc ka's and they swap over to the dohc head.
pakii-afa
Learners Permit
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:29 am

Post by pakii-afa »

yes, but in-perspective once i got thinking about what all i needed, i thought about the sohc block to dohc head theory, and that gives you a few options on such as choosing which dizzy you want to run, or internal/external pump etc.
so in the same perspective, the dohc block to sohc head theory on my papers limited certain things such as not having an oil pump at all or distributor - if for say you arent able to swap over the chain sprocket or helical gear - blah blah

when i initially began searching the only thing i read was that it couldnt be done (either or swaps) but no solid evidence to back it up, people just assumed.

i found one thread that had pictures but are now broken links and the person had somewhat of a write up. so i used that as a good to go motive and try it.

i will soon (hopefully) have a ka24et with piston oil squirters :)
pakii-afa
Learners Permit
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:29 am

Post by pakii-afa »

ran into a problem, de crank is not long enough... :( the snout is shorter due to the internal oil pump.
can i swap the E crank into the DE block or are they not compatible?
i searched it up, and i got no for the answer, but was wondering since im using the E front timing cover and inner pulleys, it should work but wanted another opinion/answer
pakii-afa
Learners Permit
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:29 am

Re: ka differences

Post by pakii-afa »

So I read up on d22 blocks.
From what I can tell they are a kaE block with piston oil coolers, correct?
They use the same dry sump and crank driven distributer.
they have 0.020in bigger main bearings correct?. Now here's the weird question, if I found a de block from a D22, would I be able to throw me s13 kaE crank into it? With D22 bearings it should work right? The main reason for this question is on paper, the l20b crank fits into a s13 block, so if I can put the l20b crank into a d22 block with appropriate bearings and a variation of rods/pistons I should get a ka22e with piston oil squirters, fcw crank for higher revving and a good stroke/rod ratio right? A D22 block works out easier for me(if possible) on my E head to DE block setup since the s13 de block has a different oil pickup tube and passage etc which require a bit of work I don't fully feel confortable running around 300 horse with. Anyone make any sense of this or am I going crazy?

Ps these questions I'm asking are all based on paper knowledge I know none of this has been proven but I'm hoping to try do it.
Post Reply