ka24det forged internals build question

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240costa_rican13
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ka24det forged internals build question

Post by 240costa_rican13 »

Ok guys so I've recently about finish up my ka. It's got supertech pistons 020." Over, eagle rods, Clevite performance bearings,. Fully rebuilt head. The motor is pretty much 100% new. Now I've also got a topmount t3 on it with a highmount intake manifold, 450cc injectors, and z32maf blow thru setup. So my question is. How exactly do you tune the car while breaking the motor in. Because obviously you're not supposed to rev the motor high or get on it hard while breaking it in. But then how do you tune it?? I'm using nistune as well.
93 s13 coupe N/A- side swiped :(
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by NateDogg »

Perhaps you should do some reading in the ECU Tuning section to get a base tune.

A generally accepted method for break-in consists of doing one heat cycle to check for leaks and proper tuning. Don't let it idle for more than necessary. Shut it down and let it cool. Then warm up again and start acceleration runs from 20%-80% of Max RPM in 3rd gear full throttle (up to 7psi boost) and then snap throttle shut (lift foot off gas) and coast back down while still in 3rd gear, repeat 10x. Change oil and proceed as usual.
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240costa_rican13
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by 240costa_rican13 »

I've been reading and I can't find a base tune with t3 450cc and z32 maf. Should I just make a thread in there for ppl to chime in. And so you're saying I should take it max rpm, and only 80% throttle or so. I've heard you don't want to rev motors high while breaking in. I just don't want my **** to break considering the money I've dropped on this damn thing and also winter is coming up. It'll be too cold to ride the honda cbr.
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240costa_rican13
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by 240costa_rican13 »

Also I can't find anyone using nistune either. They're all using megasquirt, calum, aem, nismotronic, or afc neo
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by Kisor »

Agree with Natedogg on the break in procedure. Most race engines get little to no "breaking in". The only thing that may change over time is the rings will seat in a little more.
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by 240costa_rican13 »

Really guys? My machine shop and all my buddies are saying 500 miles break in. Then oil change. But since I'm using top feed 450cc injectors and z32 maf I'm going to have to tune it accordingly. So I'm not sure as to how exactly to do that break in process without being tuned for daily driving or well tuned at all. My old tune was stock everything. Stock maf, injectors, and motor. So it wouldn't work
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by mmmS13 »

When one of my friends got his STi motor built he put 1000 miles with break in oil without revving past 4000rpms. Also while not letting the engine stay at the same rpms for a very long time.

Then one of my other friends who got his s2k motor built was told to drive it like he stole it to break it in. (doing WOT pulls with only 200 miles on the engine that made 550whp < if that matters)

I personally would break the engine in the way the shop who builds it tells you to.
But to answer a part to your question you would just make a base tune thats very conservative & drive on that while you break the engine in.
I hope I made some sense, had a few :beer: :beer: :beer: tonight.
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by AFKOUKI »

I asked my machinest, and he said just wait til its warm to get on it. I ran mine hard, but not quite a full motoman break in. I was scared to romp on it ALL the time, but It saw more than a few trips with 100% throttle up to 6.5k rpm or so. Changed the oil at 20 miles, 150 miles, 300 miles, and about to do a 1k mile oil change. After the first 2 oil changes I drove it more like normal, with the occasional thrashing.

With all that said, I did this all N/A. I'm about to put on the 650cc's, z32, blah blah blah. But I wanted to make sure everything was good to go before I fed it boost. Just a personal choice to make troubleshooting easier if I had any problems.
My Set-up is arias .020 over 8.8:1, eagle rods, King bearings, new everything, and stock head.

Here is withing the first 2.5 miles after full warm up. Turbo is on the car, but no boost to the intake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UJmn3uF3Pw

^ For some reason its not working right now, hopefully itll be back up soon. Good Luck!
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by NateDogg »

Wiseco recommends adding a thousandth of an inch to the PTW clearance if you're building a race motor with no break-in.

If you have tolerances on the tighter side of Supertech's recomendation that may determine your break-in method.
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by 240costa_rican13 »

i see.. yes you all make sense. so I guess ill just stay out of boost for the whole break in. i'll adjust the k and latency values to achieve a good idle, and crusing(to atleast 3k rpms) while driving conservatively and then when I get to the 500 mile oil change then does everyone think ill be good to go? this kinda sucks having boost and not being able to get into it.. lol
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by AFKOUKI »

I dont really understand the "no Boost" concept...what about factory turbo cars? I'm sure the dealer says take it easy, but who buys an STI and babies it home?
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by smbonn2005 »

Read and follow, have done this on every motor I've built and never have once had a problem. In fact had the best compression out of a couple rebuilt motors in the area (OEM rebuild to OEM rebuild)

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by mmmS13 »

AFKOUKI wrote:I dont really understand the "no Boost" concept...what about factory turbo cars? I'm sure the dealer says take it easy, but who buys an STI and babies it home?

One of my old co-workers blew the motor in his eagle talon and got it replaced with a brand new/rebuilt (idk which it was) engine. Instead of running like 20psi like he was before he was just breaking in the motor on like 5psi (still beating on it).

I used to work at a car dealership for awhile (Ford for awhile then Lincoln/Kia & VW) when new cars needed gas to be sold we'd take em down to the gas station. Like 20 miles on some cars just WOT mobbing down the road with them lol. A few GTi's and a good amount of mustangs I did that to with no problems. Basically, no car I drove to fill up was babied (turbo'd or NA) and never had an issue. I don't understand the concept either... at all.. lol
230k stock block
50 trim 16psi
810cc DW's
Z32 MAF
Enthalpy Tuned
*Sold*
Evo X Cornfed

http://www.youtube.com/LGmmkay
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sdaigle240
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by sdaigle240 »

talons are junk. lol

your trying to wear two surfaces together to get a good seal. ring - cylinder

why would you subject them to anything less than how they'll be used in normal conditions?

im not trying to wear my rings to a babied level of seal.

its metal on metal with oil. all the action happens pretty fast mileage wise, youve got to make your move right off the bat.

at 500 miles id wager youve worn down a fair amount of the cross hatching thats actually doing the "machining" of the rings. now with your dull cross hatches your going to take your not-real-world-conditions worn rings and subject them to all out use.

your milling with a dull bit.

you dont thrash the thing. its methodical and makes sense.
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240costa_rican13
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by 240costa_rican13 »

guys calm down. lol I made this thread to help me and others that build built bottom end ka's. not ppl start flaming about what cars are junk and what not. anywho when the shop did the ring gap supertech gave gaps for turbo and street performance. I opted for the turbo ring gap. so I also think that the reasoning behind not boosting on break in is because the sealing process . like boost will put stress on the rings when they're trying to seal. idk that's just what makes sense to me. but!! AFKOUKI makes sense as well. stock turbo car motors, like the sr20, ca18, rb's, vg's, boxer motors, vw's, audi's, evo's, etc. this would make me think low boost would fine, example 7-8psi. im still just worried about this motor not holding up being new, since this is my first car/build/turbo project/DD. I don't have too much experience breaking any motors in. also like majority of 240 owners i cant afford to buy pistons and rods again if they ***** up. this has already set me back 1500 for head/block work and parts.
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by NateDogg »

The whole point is to put stress on the rings so that they DO seal. If the lord of the rings isn't forced to mate with the bore of babylon the two will never live without properly being broken in and piston.
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by 240costa_rican13 »

so then I should go out and start doing pulls on the highway and tune?? that's what it seems like you're saying natedogg.
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Re: ka24det forged internals build question

Post by AFKOUKI »

read the motoman method linked earlier in the thread. Many many ppl on here have used it with great success, including myself. AAlso like stated earlier, its methodical. Dont start making WOT runs without a tune if youre boosting right from the get go.
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