Need ECU recommendations please

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Need ECU recommendations please

Post by Colorado240 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:01 am

I am now looking at doing a 300-350 hp ka build but the subject of ecu's confuse me alittle. What ecu should I go with for it to be professionaly tuned by someone in my state?

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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by Matt Cramer » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:51 am

Ok, so I've got a vested interest in seeing you chose a MegaSquirt PNP here, but I'll give you a list of questions to help decide what is right for you.

1. If you don't have experience with rewiring a car or are paying for the system to be installed, a plug and play setup will save a lot of hassle and money unless you need some features that aren't available in a plug and play system.

2. Is there anything else you need with the system? Don't forget to factor that into the cost. For example, systems that work as upgrades to the stock ECU will often need a bigger MAF; standalone systems often come with a MAP sensor to avoid the need for an upgrade.

3. Do you just want to tune fuel and ignition, or do you want the ECU to control more? Some examples include two step rev limiters and boost control.

4. What is your tuner comfortable with?
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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by supakat » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:45 am

I am a MSPNP guy, but as Matt stated, what is the tuner comfortable with. A chipped ecu will make the power you want.
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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by iamtheyi » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:18 am

I did some research on MSPNP and there seems to be a TON of hate on it lol. I've been searching lightly for tuners for the system in socal and there seems to be none. Any reasons?

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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by neverlift » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:38 am

I am not a pnp user but I am a ms2e user.

off the top of my head; destroyed starters,fxxked up flywheels,timing drop off at higher rpms,constantly chasing firmware updates or you get no help,and most recently a blown motor from a bug that was fixed on one of those updates. It has its positive and it has its negative.


nistune and any reputable tuner will get you 350whp. That is not a difficult goal. I am considering selling the megasquirt and going with nistune :(
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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by Colorado240 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:32 am

I want the tuner to be able to control more. Im going with a z32 maf. I havent found 1 tuner that has any experience with the KA and most nissan tuners arent familiar with much of the ecu's available for the KA, I have one shop that wants to tune it but kind of letting me chose the setup... it sucks not having any tuners here that will touch the KA...

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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by Colorado240 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:33 am

I really like megasquirt from seeing supakat's success with it however there are so many horror stories and im not sure I should let a tuner just go for it and maybe ***** somehing....

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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by supakat » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:54 am

I haven't searched horror stories but majority of those can be incompetence on the tuner/installer as well. I am not starting a war but to each their own. This is one reason why I only trust my car in the hands of my bro in law and I. Good luck with the ecu adventure, no matter what platform you go.
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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by Colorado240 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:10 pm

I might go with it but still browsing all options...

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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by Colorado240 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:43 am

Supakat what do you mezn chipped ecu, like enthalpy or jwt? Is megasquirt east to learn. I like the fact that on your videos you street tune really often

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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by supakat » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:10 am

Yes, chipped is like jwt/enthalpy. MS has a learning curve. I wouldn't suggest it unless your really wanting to learn as it requires a certain knowledge to setup/tune or else you will be picking up your ring lands after one mistake.
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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by neverlift » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:06 am

supakat wrote:Yes, chipped is like jwt/enthalpy. MS has a learning curve. I wouldn't suggest it unless your really wanting to learn as it requires a certain knowledge to setup/tune or else you will be picking up your ring lands after one mistake.
qft

basically anytime you sneeze check and verify ignition timing. I was unaware of the bug ,I should have known to verify and I did not, it cost me a piston. Its had been a while so I was due.
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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by Matt Cramer » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:20 am

Many of the difficulties you listed have known fixes at this point.
neverlift wrote:I am not a pnp user but I am a ms2e user.

off the top of my head; destroyed starters,fxxked up flywheels,
Having the engine kick back when starting can happen on some 240SXs because of the wide angle between the reference slot and the time the ignition fires. A rapid RPM change while cranking can throw off the timing. If you have the engine kick back while cranking, install our aftermarket trigger disc and the problem will go away.
timing drop off at higher rpms,
There is a spark latency setting that you can use to dial this out if you encounter this issue.
constantly chasing firmware updates or you get no help,and most recently a blown motor from a bug that was fixed on one of those updates.
The number of firmware updates can be seen as a good thing or a bad thing depending on your perspective. It can be more hassle, but it also means that you can put new features in an existing unit quite often.
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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by Colorado240 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:26 am

So does MS always have to be tweaked and tuned or can you get a decent and stable tune

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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by neverlift » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:26 pm

I have the trigger wheel ,it has broken several starters and jacked my flywheel up pretty good. cranking timing is 10* so thats not really an issue as I've been told...

I have the recommended value currently ,but playing with hardware latency really didnt do much. IIRC had it from 10 to 120 and timing still wondered.

The firmware updates are good, but its bad when you have a decent tune on one firmware and need help then the only response you get on the forums is update your firmware(which means start over if its anything over one update old).

we really dont need to debate this here, its my personal experience with megasquirt, I am sorry if its not all roses.

The guy asked recommendations which makes me assume he will probably not be tuning this himself. So constantly battling firmware updates and random issues might get expensive to have someone else always working on it. IMHO other systems will make his goal cheaper and probably easier.

Op good luck with whatever option you go with ,in the end it is yours!
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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by Colorado240 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:18 pm

Thanks I appreciate rhe info neverlift. Dont wanna get something where everyone talks about the roses and no thorns thats exactly why I made this and I would go nistune but there is no certified nistune tuners in my state.

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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by Colorado240 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:00 am

Megasquirt sounds like such a badass ecu but not sure if someone like me (doesnt know a thing about tuning) is able to run it in my car :(

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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by neverlift » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:03 am

Just be warned its not a perfect system as with any aftermarket ecu, people that have had good results will claim things like you are incompetent or janked the install, might even go as far as making videos with snide comments about people they know nothing about. Good thing opinions are like assholes..
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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by Matt Cramer » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:26 am

Colorado240 wrote:So does MS always have to be tweaked and tuned or can you get a decent and stable tune
Generally, once the tune is set, it stays set until you throw another round of mods on the engine. The cold start is something that you may have to wait for cold weather to dial in if for some reason the default settings don't work.

Neverlift - can you email me at websales@diyautotune.com about the cranking issue? This is the first report I've heard of it happening with the trigger disc swap.
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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by supakat » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:20 am

neverlift wrote:Just be warned its not a perfect system as with any aftermarket ecu, people that have had good results will claim things like you are incompetent or janked the install, might even go as far as making videos with snide comments about people they know nothing about. Good thing opinions are like assholes..
LOL...I never called you out personally. All I know is that airman, flatblack, beercan, and afouki I believe never had issues like your stating. Airman and I have MSPNP. Flatblack and beercan assembled their own units. I had kick back with the stock disc when I first installed but it did not matter cuz I had the diy wheel ready to go in since I wanted to run wasted spark. You will get kick back with stock disc but the diy wheel will resolve. I am still running the same firmware that was shipped out with my ms. I only have one issue with cranking. It does not sync on the first try. It may take 3 tries to start up. If you hold the starter on for more than 5 seconds while waiting for the ecu to sync, you will burn starters. The firmware helped this out and I believe you were the one who stated but I haven't updated my unit yet so I cannot say. On my car, I can tell when the ecu syncs because the CEL will go off. Not sure if it was intended like that but it is pretty cool. All I know is, no matter what ecu you go with, it will have issues, but figuring out the issue or learning how to work with the ecu is key. No disrespect meant for anyone.
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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by supakat » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:24 am

Matt Cramer wrote:
Colorado240 wrote:So does MS always have to be tweaked and tuned or can you get a decent and stable tune
Generally, once the tune is set, it stays set until you throw another round of mods on the engine. The cold start is something that you may have to wait for cold weather to dial in if for some reason the default settings don't work.

Neverlift - can you email me at websales@diyautotune.com about the cranking issue? This is the first report I've heard of it happening with the trigger disc swap.
Only issue I heard with the tune changing is the trigger angle will not be the same when perform an update. I have yet to update so I have not experienced this yet.
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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by AFKOUKI » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:00 am

supakat wrote:
neverlift wrote: All I know is that airman, flatblack, beercan, and afouki I believe never had issues like your stating. Airman and I have MSPNP. Flatblack and beercan assembled their own units.
EDIT: set up is .020 over 8.8:1 arias
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Sorry supa, enthalpy here. I've had a lean issue on my enthalpy tune, and in the next few weeks when I get to the car I can finally see if tune number 3 does the trick.
Tune 1:I couldnt rev past ~3k. It ran and drove perfectly up to ~40% throttle or until I hit 3k but didnt realize it at first because I was being cautious and slowing trying to roll into boost, but car would go -- lean and refused to rev. Emailed martin and he called me. Talked for a bit about the car and set up and he had me send back the ecu ( $30 out of pocket) Told me the ecu worked fine on a shop car but would retune and send it out. Told me one would be a bit richer and one would be much richer.
Tune 2/3: Got the new tunes and put one in. Stupid rich at idle. 10.0. I was so frustrated. Swapped tunes and same thing. Decided to try and drive it and still 10.0 all the time. Got frustrated and decided to try again the next day. I let the car idle for about 15 minutes and the tune slowly leaned out. Went for a drive and It was stupid lean. I would see 15-16 afr as I was starting to boost. I took a video and sent it to martin. He told me that was what he needed to see, and that another tune would be sent my way.

This is where we are today. Im in the military and the car is at my parents house. This was all over Christmas leave. So now tune #4 is waiting at the house for me to install and I am praying that it will do the trick. I am getting worked up just thinking back to it because it was supposed to be a plug and play ecu and I have had no success with it. I pulled my motor almost a year ago to do this build, and I just want to boost. BUT..... the customer service has been good. I really hope this tune works out. I'm going try this tune, and if thats not it one more retune. If tahts a no-go, I'm going to ask for a refund...I really want it to work though. We shall see.

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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by supakat » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:14 am

I did my search and it was trackstargt...
TrackStarGT wrote:here's a big heads up about the new firmware. I figured out what my headache was. You MUST re-sync the physical timing with the commanded timing. The firmware with the same settings retarded my timing 18* :angry-teeth: I was retarded enough(no pun intended) to do the firmware update at work on my lunch break. All seemed fine but I was losing major power. I assumed it was the timing but I didnt know it was that bad. My exhaust manifold was glowing red hot when I got home! :wtf: ! So, I got that fixed, but now my idle is too high 1500rpm. My idle adjustment is turned all the way clockwise-closed, and the throttle stop screw is all the way out of the way. I have no idea why its idling that high, but thats for another thread Im about to start...
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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by BigLoukaT » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:42 am

Matt Cramer wrote:Having the engine kick back when starting can happen on some 240SXs because of the wide angle between the reference slot and the time the ignition fires. A rapid RPM change while cranking can throw off the timing. If you have the engine kick back while cranking, install our aftermarket trigger disc and the problem will go away.
Matt, just to confirm "A rapid RPM change while cranking can throw off the timing" (bolded): are you referring to timing being thrown off only while cranking (or momentary errors in timing), or continuing to be off after cranking and during running (sustained timing error during running)? I haven't yet seen my timing drift yet, but also don't strobe everytime my engine runs, so looking for confirmation

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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by Colorado240 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:39 pm

Its just ecu's guys no need to start getting all mad cause each of you have a different opinion. If my tuner is comfortable or if I read up more on tuning I will be going with MS

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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by Colorado240 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:42 pm

So basically you can tune it the first time and when you update your firmware you just have to correct it back to what you had?

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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by supakat » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:59 pm

Colorado240 wrote:So basically you can tune it the first time and when you update your firmware you just have to correct it back to what you had?
From trackstar's comment, it seems that the base timing just needed to be corrected. Once you have your timing map set to where you want it, tuning the fuel is a piece of cake with VEanalyze. Just enable and drive. Make sure if you have ego control turned on to turn off then tune. You can get a decent street tune that will work. If you want to take it a step further, you can get logs, analyze them and tune or run your log through veanalyze and let it do its magic.
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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by Colorado240 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:34 pm

That's sounds way better than restarting everytime you update.

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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by Matt Cramer » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:49 am

BigLoukaT wrote: Matt, just to confirm "A rapid RPM change while cranking can throw off the timing" (bolded): are you referring to timing being thrown off only while cranking (or momentary errors in timing), or continuing to be off after cranking and during running (sustained timing error during running)?
Momentary timing errors while cranking. It doesn't affect things after starting, just WHEN the rapid RPM changes are happening.
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Re: Need ECU recommendations please

Post by iamtheyi » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:36 am

Should look into nismotronic too while were talking about ECU's. It can do MAP too now I believe.

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