final drive options

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nlzmo400r
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final drive options

Post by nlzmo400r »

well Im looking into final drive options for my ka-t. I will soon be running 1bar on my gt32 and am craving longer gearing. 1st and 2nd are a bit of a hassle as it is, I can only imagine it on 1bar. I was really interested in the q45 final dive (3.54) to put into my s13 open diff casing. I still can't find confirmation on whether the q45 is r200 or r230 or what. My current setup is my s15 hlsd into my oem s13 open diff casing with stock ring gear (4.083 f/d), and as I said I would like a longer final drive. While looking into old Z rear ends, I know all of the old 260s, 280s etc usually run r200 diffs, Would a 3.54 f/d off of one of these differentials work on my setup? Could I just send it to a differential shop to have the ring gear installed (seeing as I don't have the tools to properly measure backlash and such). Thanks in advance- \\

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Post by cdlong »

i'm pretty sure the old Zs were R180s so you're out of luck there. i think even the Z31 isn't usable for some reason.

there's some info on freshalloy about the Q45 R&P, try searching there. if it doesn't work, the S15 R&P that your diff came with was 3.69:1. i've never seen the R&P for sale and only rarely a whole pumpkin but that would certainly work.
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Post by Marcus »

I haven't researched the diff options for a very long time; However, I know for a fact the J30 will work and it does lower the ratio a tad.
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Post by lov2xlr8 »

i have the J30 diff, it works and locks like a champ
and yeah it makes it a little slower for me that im still on stock ka
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Post by nlzmo400r »

Marcus wrote:I haven't researched the diff options for a very long time; However, I know for a fact the J30 will work and it does lower the ratio a tad.
Yes the j30 ring gear will work, however its only a 3.93, which isn't long enough to make a difference. The 3.69 out of an hlsd pumpkin would work fine, but I pieced together my setup and didnt get the ring gear.

Also, the 280z was the first Z to come with the r200, the 240z and 260z came with the r180 (but the r200 is a very common upgrade). SooooOOoo my question still stands, could I use a ring gear (3.54) from an r200 differential designed for a 280z in my s13?
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Post by hnugen »

I have a J30 vlsd with 245/45/16. city driving in 5th gear sucks big time.
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Post by nlzmo400r »

hnugen wrote:I have a J30 vlsd with 245/45/16. city driving in 5th gear sucks big time.
I dont see how, my friend had a j30 vlsd in his ka-t s14 (3.93f/d as opposed to our stock 4.083) and it made MAYBE 150rpm difference in each gear. Not even enough to notice. Theres no way your driving suffers that much with that minor of a difference in gearing. Also, with the 3.54 f/d I could use 4th in the city and never really need 5th.
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Post by smracing »

The only 3.54 that will work is the one from the q45. That is what I run in my s13. I also run the 300tt hubs and axles, so I'm not too sure about just dropping in the ring and pinion. I do know that the pinion bearing is larger on the q45. There is a guy who installed 3.54's with some modification and an aftermarket lsd. My set up uses all oem parts.
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Post by nlzmo400r »

thanks bro, figured id share a bit of information to confirm what you just said

Ring Gear Bolts:
The 84 to 89 R200's used a ring gear bolted to the carrier with 12mm bolts (like the s13/s14) vs. the 75-83 R200's which used 10mm bolts for that purpose. Thus the ring and pinion sets are not interchangeable between the two.

also, the q45 ring gear may be swappable, I still have some more research to do on that, however the s15 differential has 6bolt halfshafts, not the 5start pattern of q45. Do all q45s have that 5bolt pattern?

another note, how do you like the q45 f/d??
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Post by nlzmo400r »

thought I would post up the conclusions I found.

The ONLY final drives that wil bolt directly into the s13/s14 are as follows:

'88-'98 s13/s14 - 4.083
'99-'02 s15 specR - 3.69
'93-'97 j30 - 3.916
'89-'96 Z32 NA only- 4.083
any Z31 (although they came with a variety) :
'84-'87 N/A - 3,7
'88-'89 N/A - 3.9
'84-'86 Turbo - 3.54
'87-'89 Turbo - 3.7
Courtesy Nissan sells 4.3, 4.6 and 3.3 gears that wil bolt right up as well, I doubt people will use these because they're $600 so I did not put them in the table below


The final drives from the 280z with the r200 won't work because the ring and pinion bolts are 10x1.25, and the s13/s14 (and rest of cars mentioned above) are 12x1.25

The final drives from the z32TT and q45s work fit because they're 230mm diamter (r230), not r200.



also heres a quick rundown of your RPM change with each given set of gears. *NOTE* I only did a quick table for the stock 4.083, j30 3.916, s15 3.69, and Turbo z31 3.54. The 3.7 will be nearly identical to the 3.69 obviously. All speeds are at 'redline' 6900rpm with 25" tire height.

......................1st...............2nd................3rd...............4th.................5th
stock............38mph..........66mph...........96mph...........126mph.........166mph
j30................39mph 69mph...........100mph..........131mph..........173mph
s15................42mph 73mph............106mph........139mph..........183mph
Z31-T............44mph 76mph..........111mph..........145mph.........191mph

this a quick table showing a 70mph speed with each set of gears, just to give you daily driver guys an idea of interstate cruising in 5th gear.

stock @ 70mph - 2900rpm
j30 @ 70mph - 2800rpm
s15 @ 70mph - 2650rpm
z31-T @ 70mph - 2525rpm

This should give you guys a pretty good idea of what you would like. I would probably prefer the z31-T setup for a 300whp car,
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Post by glacier985 »

The z31 is a longnose diff, i dont believe you can swap the ring gear. And the q45 does work, ask Brad D, he swapped them in and the worked just fine. They are all not an r230 the 97-01's (Y33) are r200's and work.
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Post by nlzmo400r »

glacier985 wrote:The z31 is a longnose diff, i dont believe you can swap the ring gear. And the q45 does work, ask Brad D, he swapped them in and the worked just fine. They are all not an r230 the 97-01's (Y33) are r200's and work.
the longnose part doesnt make a difference. Im not talking about using the whole carrier, just the actual ring gear (same inner and outer diameter and bolt sizea). Also, I couldnt find much info on the q45 diffs, i'll contact BradD and see if he can post up what works wiht the Qs
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Post by smracing »

z31 does not work because you have to have the ring and pinion gear. All q45's are r200s. I have verified this thru checking every year, not by what other people say. The q45 output shafts are a 6 bolt not 5, and are different from other r200's. They only share a bolt pattern with the 300tt.
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Post by nlzmo400r »

smracing wrote:z31 does not work because you have to have the ring and pinion gear. All q45's are r200s. I have verified this thru checking every year, not by what other people say. The q45 output shafts are a 6 bolt not 5, and are different from other r200's. They only share a bolt pattern with the 300tt.
But the inner diamter of the ring gear is the same 128mm. I was under the impression that I could use the stock pinion gear, but judging by your response Im way off. Id like to get all this corrected so I dont misinform anyone with my post.

also, theres a q45 diff on ebay right now actually,5bolt outputs

and from what you're saying, a short nose r200 diff wtih 12mm bolts would be the only bolt on options for s13/s14
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Post by smracing »

pinion gears must match the ring gear. Also, all q45 that have 3.54's have 6 bolt flanges. Also, the pinion flange is much larger than a 240 and the driveshaft will not bolt up.
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Post by glacier985 »

BRAD D wrote:Open diff shafts
Q45 gears
drilled out Kaaz to fit the bigger q45 ring gear bolts...
:lol:
exactly what I plan on doing, minus having the Kaaz diff, I'll just have a welded diff.
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Post by nlzmo400r »

glacier985 wrote:
BRAD D wrote:Open diff shafts
Q45 gears
drilled out Kaaz to fit the bigger q45 ring gear bolts...
:lol:
exactly what I plan on doing, minus having the Kaaz diff, I'll just have a welded diff.
Ok, but I have an s15 hlsd, which requires special HLSD shafts (6bolt, but a different spline count). Could I use my current halfshafts with the q45 ring and pinion gear, drill out my s15 hlsd to fit the bigger q45 bolts and have a custom drive shaft made? Or is there another way of doing this
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Post by turtl631 »

nlzmo400r wrote:thought I would post up the conclusions I found.

The ONLY final drives that wil bolt directly into the s13/s14 are as follows:

'88-'98 s13/s14 - 4.083
'99-'02 s15 specR - 3.69
'93-'97 j30 - 3.916
'89-'96 Z32 NA only- 4.083
any Z31 (although they came with a variety) :
'84-'87 N/A - 3,7
'88-'89 N/A - 3.9
'84-'86 Turbo - 3.54
'87-'89 Turbo - 3.7
Courtesy Nissan sells 4.3, 4.6 and 3.3 gears that wil bolt right up as well, I doubt people will use these because they're $600 so I did not put them in the table below


The final drives from the 280z with the r200 won't work because the ring and pinion bolts are 10x1.25, and the s13/s14 (and rest of cars mentioned above) are 12x1.25

The final drives from the z32TT and q45s work fit because they're 230mm diamter (r230), not r200.



also heres a quick rundown of your RPM change with each given set of gears. *NOTE* I only did a quick table for the stock 4.083, j30 3.916, s15 3.69, and Turbo z31 3.54. The 3.7 will be nearly identical to the 3.69 obviously. All speeds are at 'redline' 6900rpm with 25" tire height.

......................1st...............2nd................3rd...............4th.................5th
stock............38mph..........66mph...........96mph...........126mph.........166mph
j30................39mph 69mph...........100mph..........131mph..........173mph
s15................42mph 73mph............106mph........139mph..........183mph
Z31-T............44mph 76mph..........111mph..........145mph.........191mph

this a quick table showing a 70mph speed with each set of gears, just to give you daily driver guys an idea of interstate cruising in 5th gear.

stock @ 70mph - 2900rpm
j30 @ 70mph - 2800rpm
s15 @ 70mph - 2650rpm
z31-T @ 70mph - 2525rpm

This should give you guys a pretty good idea of what you would like. I would probably prefer the z31-T setup for a 300whp car,
Just to append this, you can also use the 4.36 gear out of a R32 Skyline GT-S or some CA equipped 180SXs (I believe...its some JDM S13 chassis with a CA, not sure if FB or coupe). There's some good threads about the merits of shorter vs. taller final drives on freshalloy if you're interested in further reading.
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Post by Verik »

I've been thoroughly interested in this thread from the begining. But Nizmo400r where did you find the 3.3 gear on courtesy nissan? I've been looking and the lowest they have is a 3.7 which is no longer available.
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Post by nlzmo400r »

turtl631 wrote:
nlzmo400r wrote:thought I would post up the conclusions I found.

The ONLY final drives that wil bolt directly into the s13/s14 are as follows:

'88-'98 s13/s14 - 4.083
'99-'02 s15 specR - 3.69
'93-'97 j30 - 3.916
'89-'96 Z32 NA only- 4.083
any Z31 (although they came with a variety) :
'84-'87 N/A - 3,7
'88-'89 N/A - 3.9
'84-'86 Turbo - 3.54
'87-'89 Turbo - 3.7
Courtesy Nissan sells 4.3, 4.6 and 3.3 gears that wil bolt right up as well, I doubt people will use these because they're $600 so I did not put them in the table below


The final drives from the 280z with the r200 won't work because the ring and pinion bolts are 10x1.25, and the s13/s14 (and rest of cars mentioned above) are 12x1.25

The final drives from the z32TT and q45s work fit because they're 230mm diamter (r230), not r200.



also heres a quick rundown of your RPM change with each given set of gears. *NOTE* I only did a quick table for the stock 4.083, j30 3.916, s15 3.69, and Turbo z31 3.54. The 3.7 will be nearly identical to the 3.69 obviously. All speeds are at 'redline' 6900rpm with 25" tire height.

......................1st...............2nd................3rd...............4th.................5th
stock............38mph..........66mph...........96mph...........126mph.........166mph
j30................39mph 69mph...........100mph..........131mph..........173mph
s15................42mph 73mph............106mph........139mph..........183mph
Z31-T............44mph 76mph..........111mph..........145mph.........191mph

this a quick table showing a 70mph speed with each set of gears, just to give you daily driver guys an idea of interstate cruising in 5th gear.

stock @ 70mph - 2900rpm
j30 @ 70mph - 2800rpm
s15 @ 70mph - 2650rpm
z31-T @ 70mph - 2525rpm

This should give you guys a pretty good idea of what you would like. I would probably prefer the z31-T setup for a 300whp car,
Just to append this, you can also use the 4.36 gear out of a R32 Skyline GT-S or some CA equipped 180SXs (I believe...its some JDM S13 chassis with a CA, not sure if FB or coupe). There's some good threads about the merits of shorter vs. taller final drives on freshalloy if you're interested in further reading.
the 4.36 is shorter than my stock 4.08, I want longer, not shorter
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Post by nlzmo400r »

Verik wrote:I've been thoroughly interested in this thread from the begining. But Nizmo400r where did you find the 3.3 gear on courtesy nissan? I've been looking and the lowest they have is a 3.7 which is no longer available.
http://www.courtesyparts.com/Merchant2/ ... gory_Code=

thats got he same 200mm diameter, 128mm inner diameter and 12x1.25 botl size
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Post by Verik »

So just to verify what I've read, a R&P set like

http://www.courtesyparts.com/Merchant2/ ... o_ringset2


would be a direct fit into my existing S14 differential?

Also are you sure about your numbers? 190+ seems like an extremely long 5th gear.... is that due to the gear ratios of the tranny?
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Post by turtl631 »

nlzmo400r wrote:
turtl631 wrote:
the 4.36 is shorter than my stock 4.08, I want longer, not shorter
Ugh, I know dude, but you claimed that was a list of ALL the final drives that bolt in, and it isn't. I was just adding on to it for people who find this thread in the future.
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Post by Verik »

he made a list of all the longer rp's that would work. but thats just symantics.
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Post by turtl631 »

If you really want to get into semantics, he made a list of "all final drives" that work for the 240. Not all taller ones. Regardless, I just added some info, so chill the ***** out.
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Post by yoda »

"First, the q45 shares the same axle flange size with the z32tt. They are much larger six bolt design with larger bolts. You will need wheel hubs from a z32tt or q45. They have a larger spline than the 240 or z32na. All q45 parts can be sourced from 90-94 models. These are the only years that I know for sure work. It took me forever to figure out which axles to use. You will need 1 left z32tt axle, and 1 left q45 axle. Install the z32 axle on the left side, q45 axle on right side. Everyone says you can't use a z32tt axle because the cars are wider, but the r230 that is used in the 300 is also wider. The right side axle is a hair long. That is why the q45 is needed. The q45 is a wider car, but the left side is the short axle, which is perfect for the right side on the 240. Enjoy! "

http://www.ka24development.com/vlsd.html
Last edited by yoda on Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by nlzmo400r »

Verik wrote:So just to verify what I've read, a R&P set like

http://www.courtesyparts.com/Merchant2/ ... o_ringset2


would be a direct fit into my existing S14 differential?

Also are you sure about your numbers? 190+ seems like an extremely long 5th gear.... is that due to the gear ratios of the tranny?
no, unforutnately it wont fit. If you look a couple of posts up there is a discussion about the length of pinion gears. While thei z31's ring gear is identical to the s13/14, the pinion gear is longer because its a 'long nose' r200 differential, so it won't fit.
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Post by yoda »

i fixed the link
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Post by nlzmo400r »

yoda wrote:"First, the q45 shares the same axle flange size with the z32tt. They are much larger six bolt design with larger bolts. You will need wheel hubs from a z32tt or q45. They have a larger spline than the 240 or z32na. All q45 parts can be sourced from 90-94 models. These are the only years that I know for sure work. It took me forever to figure out which axles to use. You will need 1 left z32tt axle, and 1 left q45 axle. Install the z32 axle on the left side, q45 axle on right side. Everyone says you can't use a z32tt axle because the cars are wider, but the r230 that is used in the 300 is also wider. The right side axle is a hair long. That is why the q45 is needed. The q45 is a wider car, but the left side is the short axle, which is perfect for the right side on the 240. Enjoy! "

http://www.ka24development.com/vlsd.html
thanks for the info yoda, that clears up a lot. I still have a question though. I have an s15 hlsd which requires specific S15 stub shafts, so obviously I can't use the q45s. Is tehre a way around this delima?
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Post by fbodtrek »

600 dollars for a ring and pinion is ridiculous... if the prices were better, I sure wouldn't mind having a 4.3 ..... sure could get off the line quick with that. I can't think of any reason you'd want LONGER gearing for drag racing... you guys are weird :p
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