Clutch Disengagement Issue

Basic tech questions such as future setups, different turbo kits, car diagnosis, etc
Post Reply
AhmadG
240sx Wannabe
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:24 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Clutch Disengagement Issue

Post by AhmadG »

Stock KA24DE in an S13 with 5 spd. swap done. The damper box for the clutch was bypassed and the hardline was directly hooked to the flex line for the clutch slave cylinder.

Symptoms:
-Hard to put in gear with engine on, fine when off.
-High pitched squeal/squeak when clutch fully depressed (sounds similar to a belt squeal)
-Groany feeling/buzzing when clutch pedal is moving in either direction (intermittently gets stronger)
-Contact point near bottom of pedal, but has very little clamping force until almost the top of the pedal, so it feels like it grabs sufficiently way too high in the pedal range

My thoughts:
-Bad TOB because of the squeal. Possibly also a bad pilot bushing.
-Air in the line because it feels as if the clutch isn't fully disengaged (hard to put in gear)
-I was told the clutch was almost new, and the transmission was in good condition (6-7 months ago.....). The clutch felt progressively worse, and the tranny grinds to 2nd when really cold or shifting fast at high rpm, other than that its fine.

What should I do other than bleeding the system? I am trying to find specifically whats wrong and whether the tranny will have to be dropped. I'm short on cash ATM, so it will have to be a DIY job. lol

Thanks guys.
oes
Knows Some Stuff About 240's!
Posts: 273
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:25 am
Location: NC

Post by oes »

i had a similar problem on my stock s13, ended up one of the springs in the clutch plate popped out half way and was jamming against the flywheel
User avatar
all shal perrish
Belongs To The TOP CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS!
Posts: 2824
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:01 am
Location: liberty lake washington

Post by all shal perrish »

drop your tranny.
that is a quick eazy diy job.
that would be the best way to know what the problem is.
if oes is right about the sprink in your clutch you would have to pull your trans to see it .

good luck
www.autovaughnperformance.com


NISTUNE EXCELLENT TUNING AT AN EXCELLENT PRICE (pm with questions regarding)


I AM ON THE HUNT FOR JWT CAM GEARS..
if you have some, pm me
AhmadG
240sx Wannabe
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:24 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by AhmadG »

I was reading the DIY articles about dropping the tranny, but what really gets me is how you're supposed to hold the weight of the transmission with a jack, and then rotate it, so it can slide out. How can you rotate something that heavy while its pretty much resting on a jack?

If I drop the tranny, then I'm gonna want to put an ACT Stage 1 Street Clutch in it lol. No money at the moment.
User avatar
all shal perrish
Belongs To The TOP CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS!
Posts: 2824
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:01 am
Location: liberty lake washington

Post by all shal perrish »

i dont use a jack
the tranny aint **** for weight.
i just lay on my back and rol the tranny onto my stomach.
then slap it in
simple.
www.autovaughnperformance.com


NISTUNE EXCELLENT TUNING AT AN EXCELLENT PRICE (pm with questions regarding)


I AM ON THE HUNT FOR JWT CAM GEARS..
if you have some, pm me
240drew
Encyclopedia-Nissan
Posts: 1020
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:54 pm
Location: Irmo, South Carolina

Post by 240drew »

^^^ hahaha, ima need to drop my tranny, but i am only 18 and weigh all of 130lbs soaking wet and if that tranny went on my chest i wouldn't be moving from underneath the car... I can lift it up its not that heavy when you can get a good handle on it but underneath a car about 20in from th floor. Idk, you sound like a pretty good sized guy.
Image
Cars
1996 240sx KAt28- Sold
1992 240sx RB20- Sold
1995 240sx RB25neo- Sold
1993 240sx 2jzgte- Sold
Current:
2006 Toyota Tundra
1995 240sx 2jzgte BWs366
User avatar
Markdawg20
Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
Posts: 534
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:14 am
Location: Youngstown, Ohio

Post by Markdawg20 »

all shal perrish wrote:i dont use a jack
the tranny aint **** for weight.
i just lay on my back and rol the tranny onto my stomach.
then slap it in
simple.
+1
This the best way to do our transmissions. Benchpress the bish. Every man should be able to at least bench 90lbs or so. :D
Jackasknissan
Belongs To The TOP CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS!
Posts: 1517
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:27 pm
Location: Richmond, BC

Post by Jackasknissan »

all shal perrish wrote:i dont use a jack
the tranny aint **** for weight.
i just lay on my back and rol the tranny onto my stomach.
then slap it in
simple.
ive done it but you are one big mofo aremt you?

i feel bad for you trying to get into a low 240
Turbo24sxt wrote:SOHC > DOHC ... period ...
oaznbeasto wrote: Hey 6 posts, Go **** yourself! learn something then post[/quote
User avatar
all shal perrish
Belongs To The TOP CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS!
Posts: 2824
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:01 am
Location: liberty lake washington

Post by all shal perrish »

im 6'4 250 lbs
i do concreete.
you know how threre are man holes in the road?
well they sit on a huge cast iorn ring.
they weigh anywere from 200-310 lbs.
and i have to carry them on my sholder all day
and when i am not doing that i run a 110lb jack hammer.
so.
i guess you coulds say that a little ka tranny isnt flexing any muscles for me.


easyest way is to get your car as hight off the groud as you can in all four corners with jack stands

the higher it is the esier it is to press the tranny.. that way your arms are like half way extended and bent all funy were you make the lest amount of your strength..

hope that helps. i doubt it will.
but hope it does.

and btw, isnt the 5 speed tranny like 45-50 lbs...?
i thought the auto was around 90
www.autovaughnperformance.com


NISTUNE EXCELLENT TUNING AT AN EXCELLENT PRICE (pm with questions regarding)


I AM ON THE HUNT FOR JWT CAM GEARS..
if you have some, pm me
Daily Driven 240
Knows Some Stuff About 240's!
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 8:28 am

Post by Daily Driven 240 »

i know for a fact that the 5 speed is more then 45-50 lbs. i couldnt tell you exactly how much though, if i think of it i may weigh it.
S14 Kouki
Knows Some Stuff About 240's!
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:04 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Post by S14 Kouki »

stop worrying about the wieght, sorry to tell u everything has to come off, but before i confirm that when u did the 5spd swap did u take the automatic bearing out? if not take the tranny out also the clutch and the flywheel once its off there will be a giant pilot bearing look piece kinda looks like thisss.........


Image


gotta take that out, easy way stick a small long socket in there snugg half way and the other half of the socket sticking out hit it with a hammer fromthe top and bottom and kinda jiggle it out.

enjoy nowwwwwww.lol
418 WHP - 432 FT.TQ. on 15 PSI. E85!!! stock internals.
Image
AhmadG
240sx Wannabe
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:24 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by AhmadG »

I didn't do the 5 spd. swap myself. I should have now that I look back.

I tried bleeding the clutch today with a friend, we only had a couple minutes before we had to pack up, so I got like 5-10 squirts out of the slave cylinder. lol

It was all liquid I didn't see or hear air coming out whatsoever. Once we packed up, the car felt exactly the same. Really hard to put into first gear, at a full stop, shifting feels notchy when moving. It basically feels as if it still isn't disengaging. I'll bleed a good half liter out when my exams are done, but I want to know if I'm harming the transmission forcing it into first after every stop.

Thanks guys.

I'll drop the tranny with friends next week once my exams are done.
S14 Kouki
Knows Some Stuff About 240's!
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:04 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Post by S14 Kouki »

if you keep driving it arnd, same thing happent to me except I was to late and the bearing popped off and fused onto my input shaft of the tranny and then i couldnt go in anyyy gear.

also when i tried pulling the tranny out it wouldnt come out cuz the bearing was gay and stuck and i didnt wanna pull soo hard cuz it would break the clutch, so I had to cut open the hole where the fork comes out of and loosen all the pressure plate bolts by spinning the crank and one by one.

once i got the last bolt tranny came down hard nearly on my head, and heres what i saw......


Image


Image



I had to dremel that gayass bearing and when i did it grooved into my input shaft.



Image




My tranny was bye bye but i still had my stg4 spec which is what i was mainly worried abt. I would say dont drive it until exams are over, get a ride froma friend but try not to drive it cuz ur killing ur syncros and clutch, especially if its not broken in.

bleed the clutch line all you want I went threw 3 big brake fluid bottles and nothing but after i toke that stupid bearing out man it was sweet.
418 WHP - 432 FT.TQ. on 15 PSI. E85!!! stock internals.
Image
KFLS14
240sx Wannabe
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:23 pm
Location: New Jersey

Post by KFLS14 »

buy a exedy kit its very cheap.. 100bucks on ebay. just buy a oem tob. Sounds like a pressure plate issue though. friend has similar issues in the past.
240drew
Encyclopedia-Nissan
Posts: 1020
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:54 pm
Location: Irmo, South Carolina

Post by 240drew »

well before any of that have you tried adjusting the pedal? I know this a bit of a no brainer, but sometimes the pedal just needs to be adjusted. When it is being extended it is building pressure in the lines and making the pedal stauncher so by doing that is should correct both of your issues, just look under the dash there is a long rod attached to your pedal, loosen the jam nut and twist the rod so as to put pressure on the pedal and on the master cylinder.if i remember correctly it is counter clock wise if you are sitting in seat facing the steering wheel. Don't quote me on that...

Edit: Actually i just remembered i have an extra master cylinder in my room i never got around to putting on... It is Clockwise as if you were sitting in the seat facing the steering wheel.
Image
Cars
1996 240sx KAt28- Sold
1992 240sx RB20- Sold
1995 240sx RB25neo- Sold
1993 240sx 2jzgte- Sold
Current:
2006 Toyota Tundra
1995 240sx 2jzgte BWs366
JaySpec
Learners Permit
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:49 am
Location: Littleton, CO

Post by JaySpec »

Alright people i must have hopefully stumbled on the right feed. I got a 96 S14 It came from the factory as a 5 spd.. i blew the clutch about 3 months ago, got the exedy stage 2 and all the included fancy jazz, new master, slave, bearings/bushings etc (while your in there jobs). anyways now i'm here.. 3 months later... i'm pretty much running into the same problems as AhmadG.. no squeaks tho.. but when i did my clutch i did also remove/delete the damper line.. didn't notice anything different besides a little change up in the feel of the pedal mainly just only pedal pressure..

about a month into the new clutch things started to change, constantly, as AhmadG stated the pedal would engage the clutch low and disengage high but it was always in a different spot.. everytime i shifted, the pedal position wouldn't be the same as the gear prior.. if i drove it for some long period of time, it would start to have some pedal return problems and further engagement issues.. sounds like a bleeding problem, right? for some reason it fits for the symptoms... i'm thinking different..... when i was swapping TOB's the sleeve that the bearing travels back and forth on was broken off and was evident that the input shaft was wearing it away, not much but noticeable.. at the time of replacement i was unaware that it was actually supposed to be attached on the trans.. i basically put everything back together as i took it off..

but recently i've been noticing something is very odd as AhmadG was probably trying to describe; its some very interesting feedback from the pedal when eng/diseng. it pretty much feels rough like a "Groany/buzzing" feeling.. very mild at first then the past few days it was getting worse.. now i'm here after i had to 'limp' her home from the local pub.. now the **** in the fan.. the pedal is now only returning about 3 maybe 4 inches from the floor on its own will, i have to pull the rest of it with my toe.. no travel at all.. its engaging immediately off the floor and its very shaky on the get go i'm feeling EXTREME vibration feedback from the pedal also hearing some "healthy" noises from down under... limped it home by rev-matching the gears so i barely used the clutch on the way home... cuz its making sounds from the pedal but different sounds from down under.. they could be related tho

what i'm thinking is its gotta do with either the 'sleeve' the TOB operates back and forth on... the dampener that does not exist anymore.. or maybe even a busted spring on the disc... possibly a slave/master cyl problem... other than that i'm lost

Anybody out there who may know some solutions to these symptoms.. cuz tomorrow i'm probably ripping that ol b**ch apart tomorrow to try and find out
AK-Z
Knows Some Stuff About 240's!
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:10 pm

Post by AK-Z »

I really don't think he needs to buy a new clutch, if its doing the same thing as "S14 Kouki's" picture.

You just need a long socket that is just large enough to fit inside the hole, 2 pieces of 2x4, and a hammer. Have the stuck bushing facing towards the bottom laying on the 2 2x4s, slide in the socket and a light smack should get it out.

You can get the new pilot bushing at any parts store, nissan has been using the same one in all there manual cars since the 70's :p, shouldn't cost more than $5 at most.
User avatar
azS13
Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
Posts: 531
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:49 am
Location: Tucson, AZ

Post by azS13 »

i have been having similar issues and oredering from nissan the pilot bearing/bushing is 8 dollars and some change. im replacing mine this weekend
91 240sx- always broken
1jz project started May 2011
Running finally Oct 5, 2014
R34SR wrote: 240sx = half sports car half truck.....cant decide if you want to track it or tow a boat.
Image
Post Reply