Stock Coil limitations...

Basic tech questions such as future setups, different turbo kits, car diagnosis, etc
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Jordan Gladman
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Stock Coil limitations...

Post by Jordan Gladman » Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:46 pm

With my new turbo setup, im sparking out again. My AF"s are pretty clean at 11.5 @ WOT and I was running BKR6E11's @ .028 gap. I was having spark out at WOT at around 4-5000rpm so I tried another set of plugs at an even smaller .025" gap and still sparking out.

Question being, is there a point where the stock coil just puffs out and wont generate enough power to arc your plugs? I've never run into this problem before and that would make sense as I've never made this much power before. Just curious as to how high, HP wise, people have gotten away using the stock coil..

I had pretty decent grounding, I have a 0 ga. wire right from the head to the battery as well as from the head to firewall. Plug wires look pretty good too and they relatively new.
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Post by 91white_ka » Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:08 pm

Just out of curiousity have you tried the hardwire coil mod?

Wish I had some good imput for you but I'm interested in the answer too.

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Post by Jordan Gladman » Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:20 pm

No I have not... i found an old blaster2 coil in my garage and im going to see if it helps...
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Post by TheOne » Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:40 pm

what psi? tried colder plugs? also try the coil hardiwire mod, should be the same for a sohc.

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Post by Jordan Gladman » Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:31 pm

Im running no 8 plugs now, i was running 6's.

The blaster2 coil didnt make a difference either. Still doing it. The only thing I noticed is it isnt doing it when the motor is "relatively" cold... I can do a pull in 1 or 2 gears before I starts stumbling.

I tried looking up the hardwire mod, couldnt find a good thread... someone want to give me a quick description?
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Post by starclassic03 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:00 am

I would also like to see the hardwire mod. I am thinking about switching to ls1 cop's on my setup, but want to try the coil mod first.

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Post by Liteemup39496 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:21 am

have you considered a Kenne-bell boost a spark?

http://www.kennebell.net/accessories/bo ... aspark.htm

ive read of people running 20+psi @ stock gap with this.
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Post by TheOne » Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:39 am

copied from nico, couldn't find the thread here on ka-t. how to rewire the coil
At least four feet of 12gauge wire depending on where you get 12v from.
A relay. 30amp seems to work well
A fuse. This varies on the size of the wire you use. For 12g, use a 20 or 30amp.
A Crimp for use with your coil positive.

Okay, on the relay.

Get a standard 30a relay and:

pin 30-Common. This is where you will run 12g from the battery too.
pin 87-This is where you will run 12g wire from the relay to the positive terminal on the coil.
pin 86-Either trigger or ground. Trigger is the stock coil positive wire.
pin 85-Either trigger or ground. Trigger is the stock coil positive wire.

On pin 85 and 86, polarity does not matter.

Note: I cannot stress enough the importance of a good electrical connection. Therefore, SOLDER ALL CONNECTIONS! I even went as far as to solder the wire directly to the relay pin.

So.....

Step one: Disconnect battery positive and negative.
Step two: Find a good source to get a solid 12v from. Remember the reason you are doing this mod and don't get it from a light or something.lol
Step three: Make sure the connection is solid. I would advise not using a crimper. If you do, solder it on.
Step four: Now run the wire wherever you like to the coil. Keep it clear of the exhuast, turbo, and fan. All of which will eat your wire. Connect this wire to terminal 30 on your relay. Put the fuse somewhere on this wire.
Step five: Cut the positive wire running to your coil and solder it to terminal 86 or 85. Either will work
Step six: Solder 12g wire to terminal 85 or 86 depending on which you used for trigger, use the free terminal. And run this wire to ground.
Step seven: Now run a piece of 12g wire from terminal 87 to the coil positive terminal. You will prolly end up using a crimp connector, but solder it on.
Step eight: Re-connect positive and negative battery cables.
Step nine: See how it runs.

To take full advantage of this mod, replace your stock coil with a higher power coil. I use a MSD Blaster SS coil.

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Post by s13grady » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:16 am

are you sure there is nothing wrong with the distributor internally?
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Post by Jordan Gladman » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:39 am

Not sure no... Im going to try another brand new set of plugs and new wires before I dig too much deeper.

I would imagine the blaster 2 coil would increase spark power, so i doubt the coil is the issue. I've had a similar problem in the past and it was a cracked plug lead that was arcing out under load. This could be the same deal. I just wanted to determine whether or not there was a given point where the coil would puff out before I go out and waste money on plug leads when mine are new.
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Post by Jordan Gladman » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:41 am

TheOne wrote:copied from nico, couldn't find the thread here on ka-t. how to rewire the coil
At least four feet of 12gauge wire depending on where you get 12v from.
A relay. 30amp seems to work well
A fuse. This varies on the size of the wire you use. For 12g, use a 20 or 30amp.
A Crimp for use with your coil positive.

Okay, on the relay.

Get a standard 30a relay and:

pin 30-Common. This is where you will run 12g from the battery too.
pin 87-This is where you will run 12g wire from the relay to the positive terminal on the coil.
pin 86-Either trigger or ground. Trigger is the stock coil positive wire.
pin 85-Either trigger or ground. Trigger is the stock coil positive wire.

On pin 85 and 86, polarity does not matter.

Note: I cannot stress enough the importance of a good electrical connection. Therefore, SOLDER ALL CONNECTIONS! I even went as far as to solder the wire directly to the relay pin.

So.....

Step one: Disconnect battery positive and negative.
Step two: Find a good source to get a solid 12v from. Remember the reason you are doing this mod and don't get it from a light or something.lol
Step three: Make sure the connection is solid. I would advise not using a crimper. If you do, solder it on.
Step four: Now run the wire wherever you like to the coil. Keep it clear of the exhuast, turbo, and fan. All of which will eat your wire. Connect this wire to terminal 30 on your relay. Put the fuse somewhere on this wire.
Step five: Cut the positive wire running to your coil and solder it to terminal 86 or 85. Either will work
Step six: Solder 12g wire to terminal 85 or 86 depending on which you used for trigger, use the free terminal. And run this wire to ground.
Step seven: Now run a piece of 12g wire from terminal 87 to the coil positive terminal. You will prolly end up using a crimp connector, but solder it on.
Step eight: Re-connect positive and negative battery cables.
Step nine: See how it runs.

To take full advantage of this mod, replace your stock coil with a higher power coil. I use a MSD Blaster SS coil.

So basically you're just running a 12V line straight to the coil via a fuse and relay...? Whats the advantage?
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Post by TheOne » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:55 am

well from what i read the coil gets ~11v or less, and you're making it get 12v constantly which gets better spark.

the boost a spark does almost the same except it adds more voltage to the coil(up to 18v i believe) per psi.

the other option would be going coil on plug setup.

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Post by 91white_ka » Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:14 pm

TheOne wrote:well from what i read the coil gets ~11v or less, and you're making it get 12v constantly which gets better spark.

the boost a spark does almost the same except it adds more voltage to the coil(up to 18v i believe) per psi.

the other option would be going coil on plug setup.
The first time I did this I was getting 11.2v before and 13.4 afterwards. You could deffinelty tell the difference and that car was N/a. I would give it a shot none the less, it's a great mod for the price.

Also I remember reading somewhere that the blaster coils were made as an um great for old carb motors, and can acually put out less than some newer stock coils. Not sure how true that is but it couldn't hurt to look into that aswell.

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Post by Jordan Gladman » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:17 pm

These are the coil specs for the blaster 2.
Coil Specs
Turns ratio: 100:1
Primary resistance: .7 OHMs
Secondary resistance: 4.5K OHMs
Inductance: 8 mH
Maximum voltage: 45,000 Volts
Peak current: 140 mA
Spark duration: 350 uS
Anyone know the specs on the OEM coil?
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Post by 13waynegarcia » Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:32 pm

I know this will sound dumb, but i had a similar problem where i got a little miss at WOT and after months i realized it was the distributor and it was a new dist.. Did you try using a little inline spark tester just to make sure the spark is not skipping at WOT. It wouldn't hurt to check.

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Post by Jordan Gladman » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:44 am

I found a crack in the no2 leads plug boot from where my plug removal tool cut through the rubber. I tried taping it up til I got new wires but its still missing. I'll go pick up some new wires today and update tommorrow. Its been raining the last few days so I havent really been able to get under load to test things out.
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Post by NateDogg » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:57 am

Have you checked your battery voltage or alternator output?
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Post by Jordan Gladman » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:31 am

Im holding a charge no problem and theres no issue with lights etc. I was driving in the rain the other day with lights, windshield wipers and sterio on and no issue.
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Post by boker240 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:53 am

rewire mod is on the home page under tech.i ran a stock coil @ 325-350whp no problem.
i did have an issue once or twice with blowout and found once it was wires and the next time it was cap and rotor.

also try part # 1283 for those plugs and gapem @ 25-28.its a 7.
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Post by Jackasknissan » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:28 pm

^ wrong number, 4644 is the new number, dont say different s im looking at a box right now :)

id think you are reaching the limits of the coils, i know last summer i was getting blow out past14 psi no mater how low i droped the gap to, no matter what i did with the timing,/ fuel and with a new cap /' rotor and near new wires.

now i;ll see how edis works,
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Post by Jordan Gladman » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:56 am

New wires seem to have solved the problem. AF's were probably too rich at WOT as well so I leaned it out a bit. :)
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Post by TheOne » Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:35 am

yeah a crack on the plug wires can do that aswell, prolly archin on the valve conver or something that couldn't really be seen.

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Post by Jordan Gladman » Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:12 am

I had also pulled them on/off so many times over the last few months that they werent really "clicking" onto the plugs anymore, so its possible I just didnt have a good connection between the leads and the plugs. The new ones snapped on much tighter.
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Post by boker240 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:09 pm

Jackass Nissan wrote:^ wrong number, 4644 is the new number, dont say different s im looking at a box right now :)

id think you are reaching the limits of the coils, i know last summer i was getting blow out past14 psi no mater how low i dropped the gap to, no matter what i did with the timing,/ fuel and with a new cap /' rotor and near new wires.

now i;ll see how aids works,
1283 is a ngk 2 steps colder plug that parts store still has here in fl.the one u got is supposedly for a jeep or chrysler cars.

i ran stock coil @ 15psi daily and 18-20 psi on the week end for 6 months one time and a year another time for a total of 15,000 sh*t beating miles.id have no problem relying on it again for 1000's of more miles.
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Post by supakat » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:05 pm

do the rewire mod...i have done it on na and boost...makes a difference and well worth it...
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Post by Jordan Gladman » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:13 am

I will definately be doing it, I might rewire tonight. I'll let you know if I notice a difference.
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