White Smoke from Exhaust (update)

Basic tech questions such as future setups, different turbo kits, car diagnosis, etc
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Freise
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White Smoke from Exhaust (update)

Post by Freise »

Update It's either got to be valve seals or turbo. I went ahead and began pulling the turbo as their is a good chance I'm going with a different one anyways. So far, so good, I've checked for oil residue in the exhaust ports and in the manifold before the turbo, I figure if oil is leaking and burning off then there would be some kind of residue here if it were the valve seals... since I've found nothing, I think this is a good sign.
On a side note, I can't figure out how the hell I got the bottom mount manifold in! runners 3 and 4 are bumping into the brake cylinder and not allowing the manifold to clear the studs. Do you think I could unbolt the brake cylinder without causing issue to the brakes to give it a little play so I can pull the manifold? I have abs and feel uncomfortable in the proper bleeding process with abs, otherwise I'd just remove it. I KNOW I didn't do that to get it in originally, but I have no clue what I must have done.




Car blows huge amounts of white - also metallic smelling smoke if left at idle for long periods of time, maybe 30 seconds or more. I've brought the problem up before, the consensus was that it was burning oil, although it is not blue in color, definitely very white, and does not smell sweet like antifreeze. It does not smoke on startup, nor while the car is cold. It appears to smoke only after the car has reached operating temperature, but only in cooler-cold weather (temp less than 70*). I can get rid of the smoke by driving/putting load in the engine. If I rev in neutral, the smoke only increases with rpm.

Although I could certainly be wrong, I don't suspect valve stem seals, partly because the rest of the motor is in, relatively speaking, good condition, and partly because it blows HUGE amounts of smoke, as in my neighbors have come over to check if my car was actually on fire. It's generally a random pattern, i.e. sometimes it only takes 30 seconds of idle, sometimes longer and sometimes it never smokes at all. It just doesn't seem to fit with the symptoms of bad valve seals.

I've attempted to check for oil residue in the downpipe, it appears clear of any liquid oil.
The only other thing I can think of, is that the oil return is a thick rubber hose. Maybe the hose is collapsing and/or kinking in some way causing oil to back-up in the turbo, allowing it to burn off or seep past the seals and burn in the exhaust? It's the only idea I have at this point (and not sure if it's plausible or not), so any input is welcomed
-Tim
Last edited by Freise on Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by 500hpKA240sx »

blue-ish smoke (oil)
black smoke (fuel)
white smoke (coolent)

run a comp. check and see if your pressure is good and also on a cold start take the cap of your radiator and see if its bubbling or not. if your comp is good and not bubbling coolent your HG should be fine and that would eliminate a blown HG and then that would mean your not burning coolent.
also if your comp. is good also gives you a good idea that your not burning oil through the rings.
do you see that your using oil at all? when my seals were bad i would go through a quart of oil ever 400-600 miles. so its pretty noticeable when the seals go bad.
and since its not black its not a fuel problem.
if you can when you pull your plugs for a comp. check take some pics of the plug tips and post them up.
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Post by nismoautoxr »

do a leak down test and pressure test the cooling system . Another possibility is teh intake gasket could be allowing water into the #1 intake port. Happy hunting
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Post by 500hpKA240sx »

nismoautoxr wrote: Another possibility is teh intake gasket could be allowing water into the #1 intake port. Happy hunting
Ah ha over looked that one
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Post by Freise »

Actually I did a comp test just a few weeks ago, numbers were 175 170 170 175.
I feel like those number support a problem other than the head gasket or rings

Here is a video I took in March (I've had this problem for almost 3 years now) that shows the sudden onset of smoke, it looks "blue-er" in the shadows than it appears, in the light it looks very white. It's making it difficult for me to definitively say it's oil or coolant, but I still lean towards oil

Image

Here are spark plugs 1,2, and 4 (3 is under the strut bar, I don't see a reason to remove it to check)
#1
Image
#2
Image
#4
Image

I took the cap off the radiator on a cold start, no bubbles. Furthermore, I am not missing any water, have not had to add water since replacing my radiator, which leads me to further believe it is not coolant that is burning.

The car normally leaks a couple drops of oil, so I expect a tiny bit of oil missing. I will monitor the oil levels closely to see if I'm burning a significant amount.

I also tried re-creating the smoke, and then unplugging spark in cylinder 1 and then 2 (didn't have enough time to get to 3 and 4), in hopes that if the intake gasket is leaking into those cylinders, then there should be a relatively significant change in the amount of smoke pouring out; there did not appear to be. But, I would also think it's possible for the water or oil to leak through and simply burn off in the exhaust...

Still need to do the leak down test.

If you guys have any other suggestions please share, I appreciate all the input
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Post by nismoautoxr »

It sounds like to me you got a case of the bad valve guide seals .
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Post by Freise »

I think I'm just afraid of that, it looks like a lot of work and tools I don't own yet
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Post by schmauster920 »

Just pull the head and take it to a machine shop, have them clean and inspect the head (pressure test too) and install new valve seals... not the end of the world, should be around 200 if it doesnt need machining.
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Post by sik_z33 »

As mentioned white is typically coolant, aka a HG problem. Chances are you need a new one.
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Post by Freise »

I'm probably going to attempt to do this myself. It doesn't really look to bad with an air compressor to keep the valves up, and the tool to compress the spring. But, there are 16 of these, right? Surely not all 16 could have gone bad at the same time, would 1 or 2 of these going bad really cause that much smoke?
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Post by sdaigle240 »

you def do all of them at once. like with anything, if a few are actually bad, a few more will soon be too, so just replace all.
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Post by Chris28 »

Whenever I've had an issue with smoke it's been the turbo. Intake and hot side charge piping were always clear, but exhaust seals were bad allowing oil to get burned up. It was never a lot of smoke, but noticeable on decel and at idle.

Maybe it's a combination that is causing your issues. It's a lot of work but if you for some reason want to put all your n/a stuff back on it'd at least tell you if it's the turbo or not, and it's arguably easier than replacing the valve stem seals.
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Post by turbo98 »

I thought white smoke was oil?
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Post by supakat »

turbo98 wrote:I thought white smoke was oil?
It is white with a hint of blue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukQ2fwJuWeI

Pure white is coolant.
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Post by turbo98 »

Ah. Learn something new everyday.
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Post by Walperstyle »

A big thing is learning the smells. You can totally tell the difference between coolant, fuel and oil by smelling the exhaust.

That said... I probably have a lot of dead brain cells. :lol:
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Post by supakat »

Walperstyle wrote:A big thing is learning the smells. You can totally tell the difference between coolant, fuel and oil by smelling the exhaust.

That said... I probably have a lot of dead brain cells. :lol:
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Post by Freise »

Definitely does not smell like burning coolant, so assume it has to be oil. I've kind of been leaning towards bad turbo/seals though, i find more similarities in other people's experiences with blown turbos, and almost every account I've read about valve guides involves smoking on cold start ups and low throttle driving
That and I'm having way more fun looking at different turbos than valve guides ;-)
Haven't had time to start tearing things apart though. One way or another, this problem is getting fixed
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Post by Freise »

It's either got to be valve seals or turbo. I went ahead and began pulling the turbo as their is a good chance I'm going with a different one anyways. So far, so good, I've checked for oil residue in the exhaust ports and in the manifold before the turbo, I figure if oil is leaking and burning off then there would be some kind of residue here if it were the valve seals... since I've found nothing, I think this is a good sign.
On a side note, I can't figure out how the hell I got the bottom mount manifold in! runners 3 and 4 are bumping into the brake cylinder and not allowing the manifold to clear the studs. Do you think I could unbolt the brake cylinder without causing issue to the brakes to give it a little play so I can pull the manifold? I have abs and feel uncomfortable in the proper bleeding process with abs, otherwise I'd just remove it. I KNOW I didn't do that to get it in originally, but I have no clue what I must have done.
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