who else is spinning their bearings when their motors go?
- beercandrifter
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who else is spinning their bearings when their motors go?
was wondering who else had spun their bearings on the ka
seems every ka i had spun the bearings, generally with 3/4 being the first ones to go.
was the only reason i wanted to do another motor. had 4 ka's go with spun bearings
had 2 go on the stock ecu in n/a form when I was road racing the car, one had hot temps unknown oil pressure, other the machine shop told me to run slightly larger bearings for being in high rpm high temp scenarios and it didnt last very long. first time was on a oem old oil pump, second was on a new oil pump
had 1 go when I was on 17lbs of boost
another one i cant remember
i really wouldnt have cared if it was just a headgasket, the bearings just were no fun to deal with
seems every ka i had spun the bearings, generally with 3/4 being the first ones to go.
was the only reason i wanted to do another motor. had 4 ka's go with spun bearings
had 2 go on the stock ecu in n/a form when I was road racing the car, one had hot temps unknown oil pressure, other the machine shop told me to run slightly larger bearings for being in high rpm high temp scenarios and it didnt last very long. first time was on a oem old oil pump, second was on a new oil pump
had 1 go when I was on 17lbs of boost
another one i cant remember
i really wouldnt have cared if it was just a headgasket, the bearings just were no fun to deal with
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- beercandrifter
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first time, short block was put together by my machine shop and they measured and bought the bearings i needed for the crank (was in spec), but when i overheated the block that was more than likely the cause.
second time i did the bearings myself by grade, good chance that time was my fault =)
third was on a machined down crank with matched bearings done by machine shop, with overheating again
i doubt it was the machine shops fault as most of the issues arise from either overheating or oiling issues, just find it wierd that its always the bearings to go first. guess that was the downside of using a cometic every time.
rev limiter has always been stock, with road racing i am rarely pegging the rev limiter as opposed to say drifting which this car has not seen
second time i did the bearings myself by grade, good chance that time was my fault =)
third was on a machined down crank with matched bearings done by machine shop, with overheating again
i doubt it was the machine shops fault as most of the issues arise from either overheating or oiling issues, just find it wierd that its always the bearings to go first. guess that was the downside of using a cometic every time.
rev limiter has always been stock, with road racing i am rarely pegging the rev limiter as opposed to say drifting which this car has not seen
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- schmauster920
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R33E8 wrote:Is it possible that you are starving the engine of oil under hard cornering?
This might be it, did your other bearings show lots of wear? Im about to build a forged motor, you got me worrying a little now lol
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- beercandrifter
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well i have had an oil pressure gauge installed from the beginning, never noticed any drops, but anything is possible. without logs or something, will never know what really happenedR33E8 wrote:Is it possible that you are starving the engine of oil under hard cornering?
i wouldnt worry about me having the problems schmu, being a drag racing forum I am not sure how many people run into the same kinds of loads. I did run a standard nissan pump with no shims. i read about people modifying their oil pumps here, but i never noticed the need (was always within pressure ranges the fsm recommended)
and each time 2 bearings would show more wear than the others, but it always tended to be the rod bearings go first then the mains. at least the rod bearings would spin more and look more damaged. have used different bearing types each build, from stock, acl, 2 types of clevites.
i mean dont get me wrong, I did get some significant time and abuse on each of the motors, just found it interesting to always end up in the same scenario. it just has me wondering if i would have stuck with the felpro if i would have stopped spinning bearings or at least lowered the frequency
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are you useing a oem oil filter r cheap one. because there way different. the oem had a block off in it that keeps the oil from draining back into the pan when the car is off.
somethings like oil weight filter can play into the part of spinning a bearing.
The ports on the crank being blocked the drive gear on the crank if it had ware .
just dome things to look st.
the reason the 4 or the 3rd are the ones that go first is because by the time the oil get to the end the pressure has dropped from the 1st and 2nd rember the oil has to travel 2 feet and how many holes are pushing oil out before the end.
somethings like oil weight filter can play into the part of spinning a bearing.
The ports on the crank being blocked the drive gear on the crank if it had ware .
just dome things to look st.
the reason the 4 or the 3rd are the ones that go first is because by the time the oil get to the end the pressure has dropped from the 1st and 2nd rember the oil has to travel 2 feet and how many holes are pushing oil out before the end.
- beercandrifter
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ran oem filters on the first 2 motors, then switched to a relocation kit with my oil cooler running both a mobil filter and the fram racing series filters.
one motor 10w40, one motor 5w30, last couple 10w-40 rotella
i still want to contribute it to overheating issues everytime
one motor 10w40, one motor 5w30, last couple 10w-40 rotella
i still want to contribute it to overheating issues everytime
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Did you ever figure out why they overheated? Was the temp gauge working/accurate?
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- beercandrifter
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first time was a faulty stock gauge, bought a standalone gauge after that. had same dual pass radiator same style cometic gasket, changed some coolant routing between the blocks
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This isn't just to you beercan, since I'm sure you know all this but to everyone, so if I say you/make suggestions it's addressing anyone who's interested
Both times that my KAs have had spun bearings I could confidently say it was from lack of oil in the oil pan, well duh (I mean from leaks, bad turbo oil return hose, etc). I can't say that having an oil pressure gauge really would have prevented them since it can only take a split second without that oil film between the journal and the bearing for something to go wrong. But that doesn't mean an oil pressure gauge isn't necessary - it most certainly is for just about every other reason.
To put it simply I haven't had any "fault of the KA" spun bearings, only from not keeping the oil topped off or not inspecting things regularly. Get a proper machining/clearancing job for $300-$500 and keep oil in the motor it won't have problems.
I will say that my experiences don't involve any drifting events. This is a totally different ballgame because in my opinion our oil pumps are backwards - it should be rear sump at the least. I've watched my oil pressure drop under heavy acceleration when the oil runs to the back of the pan if it's not filled enough.
Also drifting may cause a lot of oil to end up riding along with the crank and aerating it - which ends up between the bearings; we know that air isn't the greatest lubricant. A windage tray would improve this.
Both times that my KAs have had spun bearings I could confidently say it was from lack of oil in the oil pan, well duh (I mean from leaks, bad turbo oil return hose, etc). I can't say that having an oil pressure gauge really would have prevented them since it can only take a split second without that oil film between the journal and the bearing for something to go wrong. But that doesn't mean an oil pressure gauge isn't necessary - it most certainly is for just about every other reason.
To put it simply I haven't had any "fault of the KA" spun bearings, only from not keeping the oil topped off or not inspecting things regularly. Get a proper machining/clearancing job for $300-$500 and keep oil in the motor it won't have problems.
I will say that my experiences don't involve any drifting events. This is a totally different ballgame because in my opinion our oil pumps are backwards - it should be rear sump at the least. I've watched my oil pressure drop under heavy acceleration when the oil runs to the back of the pan if it's not filled enough.
Also drifting may cause a lot of oil to end up riding along with the crank and aerating it - which ends up between the bearings; we know that air isn't the greatest lubricant. A windage tray would improve this.
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- beercandrifter
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was just wondering if other people had issues lol, funny it turned into a troubleshooting thread
Last edited by beercandrifter on Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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excessive manufacturing sells a windage tray for ka's, this might help with the cornering and what not. i myself have had 2 rodknock engines, usually the 3rd goes out first. no main bearings just rod bearings.
http://www.xcessivemanufacturing.com/ON ... =4&pid=174
http://www.xcessivemanufacturing.com/ON ... =4&pid=174
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Here is what my machine shop did. in he block they made it so I can put in double grove bearings for better oiling. vs stock only one half a bearing has a grove. don't know if I explained it well. so when I got my clevite bearings I believe 2nd and 4th, I tossed the bearings that dint have a grove, and put it nissan oem grooved. so all 4 sets were he same.
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- schmauster920
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Thats a cool way to do it Berserker, i wonder what the machine shop had to change.
Yeah the bottom shell has a channel in it, the tops are just smooth, im not overly crazy about that. Ive heard about some shops cutting groves in bearings too.
This makes me feel lucky that i had to convert to rear sump since i have a truck.
I thought front sump slosh would rear its head at much higher hp. I wonder if it would slosh badly with just a clutch dump.
I intend to add some kickouts to my pan next time its out.
Yeah the bottom shell has a channel in it, the tops are just smooth, im not overly crazy about that. Ive heard about some shops cutting groves in bearings too.
This makes me feel lucky that i had to convert to rear sump since i have a truck.
I thought front sump slosh would rear its head at much higher hp. I wonder if it would slosh badly with just a clutch dump.
I intend to add some kickouts to my pan next time its out.
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I just recently bought the Xcessive oil pan with an Isis sump. Now I'm thinking about adding this too.TheOne wrote:excessive manufacturing sells a windage tray for ka's, this might help with the cornering and what not. i myself have had 2 rodknock engines, usually the 3rd goes out first. no main bearings just rod bearings.
http://www.xcessivemanufacturing.com/ON ... =4&pid=174
Knock on wood, but I've yet to spin a bearing on any motor I've owned. The only track I have ever taken any of my cars to is the drag strip. I'm scared of spinning one though. Hence why I have an easy time justifying the purchase of items that could help prevent spun bearings.
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I didnt feel like typing this in my words so i found a good explanation and copied it... but to the point you said it got hot... are you having thermal break down? and is your oil cooler in a spot where its cooling enough? and when do you do oil changes? I do mine every 1000 miles or ever time before any racing with full synthetic
What happens when a car's engine gets too hot? Well, lots of things, and none of 'em good. Thermal breakdown is among the most damaging effects, and occurs when a car's internal heat causes a chemical reaction in the motor oil, which causes the oil's viscosity to change. Basically, if (or more accurately, when) the engine heats up beyond a certain temperature threshold, the motor oil will start to degrade.
The viscosity (also referred to as the oil's "weight") is crucial to ensuring the oil flows smoothly while properly coating the metal engine components to prevent metal-on-metal contact. The viscosity change caused by thermal breakdown results in decreased oil flow, which can eventually lead to increased oil consumption, deposit buildup and damage to the engine's metal surfaces.
What happens when a car's engine gets too hot? Well, lots of things, and none of 'em good. Thermal breakdown is among the most damaging effects, and occurs when a car's internal heat causes a chemical reaction in the motor oil, which causes the oil's viscosity to change. Basically, if (or more accurately, when) the engine heats up beyond a certain temperature threshold, the motor oil will start to degrade.
The viscosity (also referred to as the oil's "weight") is crucial to ensuring the oil flows smoothly while properly coating the metal engine components to prevent metal-on-metal contact. The viscosity change caused by thermal breakdown results in decreased oil flow, which can eventually lead to increased oil consumption, deposit buildup and damage to the engine's metal surfaces.
viewtopic.php?t=53160&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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- beercandrifter
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had my oil cooler in front of my radiator mounted on the cool side of the radiator. has worked for multiple people in this configuration, although it is going to get moved to where the washer reservoir was with custom ducting while I rework the car here.500hpKA240sx wrote:I didnt feel like typing this in my words so i found a good explanation and copied it... but to the point you said it got hot... are you having thermal break down? and is your oil cooler in a spot where its cooling enough? and when do you do oil changes? I do mine every 1000 miles or ever time before any racing with full synthetic
What happens when a car's engine gets too hot? Well, lots of things, and none of 'em good. Thermal breakdown is among the most damaging effects, and occurs when a car's internal heat causes a chemical reaction in the motor oil, which causes the oil's viscosity to change. Basically, if (or more accurately, when) the engine heats up beyond a certain temperature threshold, the motor oil will start to degrade.
The viscosity (also referred to as the oil's "weight") is crucial to ensuring the oil flows smoothly while properly coating the metal engine components to prevent metal-on-metal contact. The viscosity change caused by thermal breakdown results in decreased oil flow, which can eventually lead to increased oil consumption, deposit buildup and damage to the engine's metal surfaces.
always ran new oil before track events
probably changed the oil more frequently than 1000 miles and used regular oil for the cost vs synthetic and because it was recommended to run the rotella by the machine shop due to the contents prolonging life of the motor in harder use scenarios
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T56/4.8 LSx/LS9 Cam/60lb injectors/comp 918 springs/Megasquirt 3/all custom wiring