What Holset turbo should I go with for 300hp quick spool?

Basic tech questions such as future setups, different turbo kits, car diagnosis, etc
MasterOSkillio
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What Holset turbo should I go with for 300hp quick spool?

Post by MasterOSkillio »

After walking away from a T25 setup because it was messy, and everyone keeps saying to aim higher then a T25, I was thinking a bout a budget/quality turbo like Holset. Something maybe along the lines of a hx25/hx30/hy35 (is there anything else I should look at?). I really want a fast spool and to be just under 300hp. That is absolute max though, I would probably daily drive it at a way lower setting, which Hoslet should I be looking at? What would I be looking at in terms of spool?

I know the hy35 will start spooling around 2.7 and be fully spooled by 3.2, I think that one may be too big for my goals.

Should I be running and internal or external wastegate? Will these turbos have to be reclocked to work with a top mount log style manifold? I have this exactly:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1989-1990-1991- ... vi-content

Where should I be looking to get one? I have seen a few on ebay for $200-$300 are they knockoffs?

I will have an Enthalpy tune, this is a stock KA with maybe 60k on it (so no sky high boost). Injectors will be something in the 480/500 range, way over what I need. Electronic boost control. The idea is to run the stock engine at a low boost for fun and maybe down the road do a proper rebuild when I have the $$$
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Post by mmmS13 »

I feel a Holset hx30 would be pretty good for your goals. I don't know much about the Holset turbos too much but I believe it is similar to a 50 trim? (someone correct me if im wrong) as some people say and I agree with them completely turbo lag is overrated. Full boost around 3.5k is really nice as you don't get into boost too fast so for poor weather conditions or cops rolling around you'd be okay.

You may want to look at a simple T3/T4 50 trim with a .63 a/r if your not fully set on a Holset. New they go for around $500. Spooling by 2700 and full boost by 3500.
Def go external wastegate, its a lot better than internal ones (although Ive only used externals) You would possibly have to reclock to the turbo to fit your intercooler piping better/cleaner.

The manifold you listed would be alright to use, people have had problems with the t4 turbo mounting holes leaking I believe so they would have to be plugged up. JGS makes a nice log manifold as well which has good turbo placement. They also make a downpipe for the manifold so that would help with the headache of things fitting together.

You've got yourself in the right direction doing a stock block low boost for fun now and a proper rebuild later down the road but don't forget, the KA's can handle some abuse with a safe tune. Seeing as how you will be going with an Enthalpy tune your block should be pretty safe.
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Post by MasterOSkillio »

Im not dead set on the Holset, but I have heard they are built tough and last a long time. I have nothing against the T3/T4 setup, but I am on a bit of a budget, and I think I could get 2 hx30 for $500. They seem to run 200-300 rebuillt. For that much I could afford to buy a spare when I am a few miles in and it wont hurt me.

I have heard of people running dual wastegates when they go for electronically controlled boost. If the internal fails because of a bad solenoid the external can be set to go at a predetermined max so you dont over boost. Would that type of setup be overkill?

What levels of boost can a stock KA in good condition take?

Also what reputable dealers sell Holsets? I don't want to go ebay and end up with a knockoff that dies after 500 miles
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Post by LPime001 »

I definitely agree with mmmS13.

My t3/t4 with a .63 back housing begins spooling at about 2800. A little bit of lag isn't too bad. You can stay out of boost for daily driving and get great MPGs. If after a while you feel 2800 is too laggy, you can always swap out the back housing to a 0.48ar and spool even earlier. You may be fighting with traction issues with the 0.48ar though.
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Post by mmmS13 »

MasterOSkillio wrote: What levels of boost can a stock KA in good condition take?
Lets put it this way, my block is very high mileage (230k) and im pushing 16psi from a 50 trim. Its held well so far but I dont go WOT every time I drive it. Granted I don't recommend pushing an old block this much, but it can be done :D

Also, the dual wastegates internal and external is a bit overkill. A single external would be plenty.
230k stock block
50 trim 16psi
810cc DW's
Z32 MAF
Enthalpy Tuned
*Sold*
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Post by MasterOSkillio »

LPime001 wrote:I definitely agree with mmmS13.

My t3/t4 with a .63 back housing begins spooling at about 2800. A little bit of lag isn't too bad. You can stay out of boost for daily driving and get great MPGs. If after a while you feel 2800 is too laggy, you can always swap out the back housing to a 0.48ar and spool even earlier. You may be fighting with traction issues with the 0.48ar though.
I wanted to stay on more of a budget it seems most t3/t4 are close to 600-700, unless you know a place I can get one cheaper. Didn't the t3/t4 have a .50 or .55 trim, something in between the .48 and.63? I thought I saw that somewhere...
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Post by mmmS13 »

Back when I ordered my manifold from Blueridge Motorsports I got my 50 trim from them too for 550 I believe
230k stock block
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810cc DW's
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Enthalpy Tuned
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Post by MasterOSkillio »

mmmS13 wrote:Back when I ordered my manifold from Blueridge Motorsports I got my 50 trim from them too for 550 I believe
Ok, well right now I have a line on a legit/new Hoslet hx30 for $330, if that falls through I will look into t3/t4, because I think the hx35 is about the same amount of money as that. If it is too small I can always sell it and go bigger. Are you running the 04E or B? and those are ball bearing too right?
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Post by mmmS13 »

04E and mines journal bearing. With turbos around that size BB and JB aren't that much of a difference for just under 400hp in my eye. I'd only go BB if I was looking to break 600whp or something. In the end either turbo you go with is going to be a good choice.
230k stock block
50 trim 16psi
810cc DW's
Z32 MAF
Enthalpy Tuned
*Sold*
Evo X Cornfed

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Post by LPime001 »

MasterOSkillio wrote:
LPime001 wrote:I definitely agree with mmmS13.

My t3/t4 with a .63 back housing begins spooling at about 2800. A little bit of lag isn't too bad. You can stay out of boost for daily driving and get great MPGs. If after a while you feel 2800 is too laggy, you can always swap out the back housing to a 0.48ar and spool even earlier. You may be fighting with traction issues with the 0.48ar though.
I wanted to stay on more of a budget it seems most t3/t4 are close to 600-700, unless you know a place I can get one cheaper. Didn't the t3/t4 have a .50 or .55 trim, something in between the .48 and.63? I thought I saw that somewhere...
I completely understand about being on a budget. 90% of the kit I pieced together is made up of second hand parts, including the turbo. I bought a used Turbonetics 50 trim locally for $200. I don't think the kid knew what he was selling. I'm definitely not trying to spend your money. LOL

I think your comparing apples and oranges with regards to prices. I agree a brand new t3/t4 runs between $500 and $700, but I figured if you are willing to buy a used or rebuilt Holset, you may be willing to buy a used or rebuilt 50 trim.

If your going to buy used locally, read up on Trims and A/R. The trim of a compressor or turbine wheel is a ratio of the big and small wheels. The A/R of a housing is a way to calculate the size of the housings. I don't know how many turbos i checked out where the person told me it was a 50 trim because the compressor housing had 0.50 A/R stamped on it. They are two different things. I believe your right about the turbine housing A/R of some t3/t4 turbos. I think Garrett provided a 0.56 A/R turbine housing, but 0.48 A/R and 0.63 A/R are the most common sizes you will find.

With regards to BB vs Journal, I would suggest a journal bearing turbo. They are generally cheaper, and if they ever begin to fail, you can buy rebuild kits for pretty cheap. That is if you catch it before the wheels make contact with the housings. With a BB turbo, you usually have to buy a whole new CHRA. Someone on this forum is selling BB rebuild kits, but those are over $300 compared to an $80 journal bearing rebuild kit.
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Post by ka-t240sx »

MasterOSkillio wrote:Im not dead set on the Holset, but I have heard they are built tough and last a long time. I have nothing against the T3/T4 setup, but I am on a bit of a budget, and I think I could get 2 hx30 for $500. They seem to run 200-300 rebuillt. For that much I could afford to buy a spare when I am a few miles in and it wont hurt me.


What levels of boost can a stock KA in good condition take?
Holsets are awesome. Definitely can not beat them for the price. And their cheap as crap to rebuild if you can do it yourself.

As for how much a stock KA can handle. It really all depends.
In my experience I've had 3 stock blocks. One had 235000 km and it was boosted at 205000km. Ran 290 hp since i boosted it.I beat the livin piss out of it. Track days and on the street. It actually blew up after i sold it and the guy had it N/A haha

I also rebuilt two blocks (just new rings/bearings) with a built head and one threw a rod at 340whp (hx35, 94 octane) and the other one blew the rings/ringlands and spun a bearing. Made 320 whp before she popped.

Just makes sure you get a solid tune and you should be fine.
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Post by MasterOSkillio »

ka-t240sx wrote:
MasterOSkillio wrote:Im not dead set on the Holset, but I have heard they are built tough and last a long time. I have nothing against the T3/T4 setup, but I am on a bit of a budget, and I think I could get 2 hx30 for $500. They seem to run 200-300 rebuillt. For that much I could afford to buy a spare when I am a few miles in and it wont hurt me.


What levels of boost can a stock KA in good condition take?
Holsets are awesome. Definitely can not beat them for the price. And their cheap as crap to rebuild if you can do it yourself.

As for how much a stock KA can handle. It really all depends.
In my experience I've had 3 stock blocks. One had 235000 km and it was boosted at 205000km. Ran 290 hp since i boosted it.I beat the livin piss out of it. Track days and on the street. It actually blew up after i sold it and the guy had it N/A haha

I also rebuilt two blocks (just new rings/bearings) with a built head and one threw a rod at 340whp (hx35, 94 octane) and the other one blew the rings/ringlands and spun a bearing. Made 320 whp before she popped.

Just makes sure you get a solid tune and you should be fine.
Ha ha ha! Good! ! This block has less then 60k on it so hopefully I will get some serious fun out of it before I have to do any nonsense....
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Post by mechavore884 »

*on a side note....isn't that the same manifold they had a thread about recently since something wasn't lining up properly? (IDK I could be wrong though)
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Post by mechavore884 »

as many have said over the forum I hear nothing but good things about the HX35/Hy....and also (granted finanec situation may say differently) but why not do a rebuild? it will definitely benefit in the long run and u only have to do it once (even with OEM parts)
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Post by MasterOSkillio »

mechavore884 wrote:*on a side note....isn't that the same manifold they had a thread about recently since something wasn't lining up properly? (IDK I could be wrong though)
yeah it doesn't line up exactly right, one of the holes is off, just a tiny bit and the runners are really badly sized when you line them up to the head, for something that has to flow more exhaust they are small. I think with a drill press I can get the holes right, but I do not know about the runners I only have a dremel and I don't think I am equipped to properly bore them out.

I was thinking about getting an sr manifold and redoing the flange for the ka like many people do, but I am not sure if it will fit if I flip it for top mount. Supposedly Holsets weigh a lot I would like to stay with something cast iron. I don't want to buy a steel one and have it crack because of the weight.

mechavore884 wrote:as many have said over the forum I hear nothing but good things about the HX35/Hy....and also (granted finanec situation may say differently) but why not do a rebuild? it will definitely benefit in the long run and u only have to do it once (even with OEM parts)
I have never rebuilt a turbo, but I will have to look into it. It does not look like there is much to be done, and there are so few pieces. Plus Holsets seem to be cheap to buy used.
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Post by ashy-larry »

MasterOSkillio wrote:
mechavore884 wrote:*on a side note....isn't that the same manifold they had a thread about recently since something wasn't lining up properly? (IDK I could be wrong though)
yeah it doesn't line up exactly right, one of the holes is off, just a tiny bit and the runners are really badly sized when you line them up to the head, for something that has to flow more exhaust they are small. I think with a drill press I can get the holes right, but I do not know about the runners I only have a dremel and I don't think I am equipped to properly bore them out.

I was thinking about getting an sr manifold and redoing the flange for the ka like many people do, but I am not sure if it will fit if I flip it for top mount. Supposedly Holsets weigh a lot I would like to stay with something cast iron. I don't want to buy a steel one and have it crack because of the weight.

mechavore884 wrote:as many have said over the forum I hear nothing but good things about the HX35/Hy....and also (granted finanec situation may say differently) but why not do a rebuild? it will definitely benefit in the long run and u only have to do it once (even with OEM parts)
I have never rebuilt a turbo, but I will have to look into it. It does not look like there is much to be done, and there are so few pieces. Plus Holsets seem to be cheap to buy used.
I have seen a few successfull sr converted manis work fine(ANd the ones w/the Ex WG mod) but I think flipping it(Maybe, dont quote me on this 100%) MAY cause clearance issues w/the distributor especially if going w/said hx35 or a large turbo.

I have seen the typical stainless t2 mani flipped and rewelded w/t3 flange(Flange was modded a bit for angle iirc) work fine w/clearance though, so like i said dont quote me on this but I just basically wanted to raise awareness on the possible issue.
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Post by mechavore884 »

you know what.....(just an idea) but do you think anyone can do a write-up of how to convert the SR manifolds -> the KA...realistically (it could be my noobness speaking) but outside of ISI bottom mount manifold&megan I really don't see many T2 mani' options......granted this could just be me though...
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Post by MasterOSkillio »

mechavore884 wrote:you know what.....(just an idea) but do you think anyone can do a write-up of how to convert the SR manifolds -> the KA...realistically (it could be my noobness speaking) but outside of ISI bottom mount manifold&megan I really don't see many T2 mani' options......granted this could just be me though...
They sell a KA flange on ebay, you cut off the flange for the SR and weld the KA one on, pretty simple, I don't know if it can be flipped for top mount though. (I mean if the whole thing will fit under your hood flipped)
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Post by mechavore884 »

wow...granted that sounds simple I guess Id have to start looking into folk who can weld, but thanks nonetheless its good to know it doesn't (sound) that hard to do
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Post by Qemyst »

Man. I can't find any cheap HX30's. I'm in the same boat right now. Putting together a 300hp build with an Enthalpy tune. Finding a nice 300 dollar HX30 would make my day, since i'm trying to keep the entire build around $2500-3000....cheaper if possible..
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Post by sdaigle240 »

for ref im seeing peak tq at 4200 on an HY. so was MO HISH. im seeing 18-20psi by 3100, mo was running 16 and seeing it by then as well.
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Post by MasterOSkillio »

Qemyst wrote:Man. I can't find any cheap HX30's. I'm in the same boat right now. Putting together a 300hp build with an Enthalpy tune. Finding a nice 300 dollar HX30 would make my day, since i'm trying to keep the entire build around $2500-3000....cheaper if possible..
Having the same issue, does anyone know a reliable place to get one of these? I tried calling that goldfarb place and they said they don't stock them.


sdaigle240 wrote:for ref im seeing peak tq at 4200 on an HY. so was MO HISH. im seeing 18-20psi by 3100, mo was running 16 and seeing it by then as well.

Where do you start to see boost on this setup? I may go hy35 if I can't get a hx30 for a reasonable price.
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Post by sdaigle240 »

from a 1500 pull it def starts spooling at or b4 2k
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Post by i_slide »

Maybe this information here might help someone out in the future. To me it's like the bible of holset turbo's which can help you identify them and probably help you pick a choice. It's like the 9th post down.

http://www.nwsrt4.com/archive/index.php/t-8222.html
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Post by MasterOSkillio »

i_slide wrote:Maybe this information here might help someone out in the future. To me it's like the bible of holset turbo's which can help you identify them and probably help you pick a choice. It's like the 9th post down.

http://www.nwsrt4.com/archive/index.php/t-8222.html
wow! ! That low? I didn't realize it was that.That seems quick for something that can make 350hp at 15psi. Do you feel it is a decent size turbo? I don't know what you were shooting for originally, It seems big for what I am looking to do though, below 350 is what I really want, and for the most part it will be way lower then that (250 for daily driven stuff)

I have seen a lot of people talking about the hx30, but I have never seen one actually installed on a 240sx, or how it actually has performed, and I have searched alot.


What do you think of the bog warner s200 or s2a? I don't see very much about that on our cars, and I have no idea of what I could compare them too.

EDIT: does anyone know what an hx25 or an hx27 would be comparable to in term of a garrett? I see a lot of 25s arounf and they might be fun, but if they are small like a T25 it may bot be worth it.
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Post by i_slide »

I dont have any first hand experience with holset's or anything but what i've been reading is that the hx30 would be good for 300 definitely and maybe even to mid 300? - Those power levels with full boost by 3-3500 rpm isnt bad in my mind but it's all up to you and others opinion. That link above was just for information/curiosity for anyone viewing.
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Post by MasterOSkillio »

i_slide wrote:I dont have any first hand experience with holset's or anything but what i've been reading is that the hx30 would be good for 300 definitely and maybe even to mid 300? - Those power levels with full boost by 3-3500 rpm isnt bad in my mind but it's all up to you and others opinion. That link above was just for information/curiosity for anyone viewing.
Yeah, I've read that, it seems that most people talk about the hx30, but have never done it, most 240 people have done the hx/hy35. I saw a thread bout someone that ran an hx30 on an SR the results where pretty encouraging, but either way I am having issues just finding one. I think the hx30 is the right size/spool for what I want, but where to get one seems tricky.
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Post by wheelman »

Here's a genuine HX30 on fleabay right now:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Holset-hx30-tur ... 48&vxp=mtr
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Post by MasterOSkillio »

wheelman wrote:Here's a genuine HX30 on fleabay right now:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Holset-hx30-tur ... 48&vxp=mtr
Spoke to that guy, he double listed it, dunno why he didn't take that down.
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Post by i_slide »

Same and only listing i seen also for a hx30 - in my area there are only hx35 for sale. Weird how hard they are to find when your really looking for one.
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