Car running horribly. AFR=20,misfires,hard start. [SOLVED]

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Car running horribly. AFR=20,misfires,hard start. [SOLVED]

Post by shift_down »

Well Im out of ideas. Ive done all I could but just cant seem to figure it out. So I decided to post here and maybe somebody can help me out?

PROBLEM
Misfires constantly. Can only start the car if the gas pedal is all the way down when I turn the key, then it idles horribly on its own. The Wideband reads scary lean, and there seems to be ticking noises coming from the motor.

DATA
Boost gauge reads -4 at idle
AFRs read 20 at idle
Oil presssure reads 40-50 at idle
Tach bounces from 900 - 1000 rpm at idle
Compression test reads 210 across all cylinders

TRIED
New cap
New Rotor
New CTS
New wideband sensor
New plug wires
New head gasket and head bolts

Did a boost leak test, and everything is solid.
Did a smoke boost leak test and smoke was nowhere to be found
I tried to read timing via a timing gun, but since it misfires, the marks bounce all over the place with respect to the needle.
I havent pulled it out of the driveway since its been like this.

EDIT:
PROBLEM SOLVED!


The problem was solved thanks to KA-T and McHaals for the answer.

This is what My chain looked like, ONLY 12 LINKS BETWEEN THE CAM DOTS:

Image

McHaals showed me that it is supposed to be like this:

Image

So I pulled the front cover off and turned the cam a little to make the chain correctly positioned.

Problem solved
Last edited by shift_down on Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Marcus »

What all else have you checked? Fuel system? Did you test any other sensors?
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Post by shift_down »

Fuel checks out fine. I did not use a gauge, but the pump is new and I always hear it prime. The injectors are all new with new orings as well. I did not check any sensors. I do have a conslt cable for the car that I can connect to my laptop, but I dont know what to look for.
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Post by Marcus »

I did not check your build thread (that's a lot of pages), but FPR you're sure is good? MAFS?

Edit. Have you manually set to TDC and seen where the rotor is?
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Post by shift_down »

Problems started after HG was changed.

MAF worked perfectly, FPR worked perfectly also.

I Checked for TDC of crank on compression stroke by opening VC and verifying that the lobes pointed outwards. Also pulled the dizzy cap to verify the rotor was pointing at number one cylinder.
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Post by Marcus »

1.) why did the headgasket get done?
2.) pointed towards number 1 on upcoming or leaving pass?
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Post by shift_down »

1. The oil was extremely gooey and white. Now that i've changed it, It no longer gets milky.

2. I didnt know there was a difference between leaving and upcoming on the distributor
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Post by Marcus »

Timing wise 1 tooth off will either see the rotor leaving or coming upon number one.
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Post by Gotenks64 »

Cams? Are you sure you installed them back properly?
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Post by shift_down »

Ya im pretty I did. The lobes faced outwards at 11 oclock and 1 oclock. The tension was placed everywhere on the chain except on the tensioner side. Everything rotates perfectly with no valves hit.
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Post by shift_down »

Marcus wrote:Timing wise 1 tooth off will either see the rotor leaving or coming upon number one.
I see what you are saying. I believe that its dead on. I am starting to second guess myself though so I will check again.

If the chain is one tooth off, Will the car act like this? Or will it not run at all?
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Post by ViperGT »

Sounds like your distributer is a tooth off, when my motor was n/a I had it a tooth of and it idled like a monster port rotary, sounded wicked lol, have tried to make it idle like that with the aem but I have not been successful yet. Anyways while car is running try to rotate distributer to either direction and check if it starts to run any better, if it does you know for Sure that that is the problem, otherwise make sure your cam lobes on #1 are 180 degrees out at tdc, if that checks out I would double check fuel pressure WITH a gauge, and if that checks out try restabbing dizzy anyways and then if you are still unsuccessful, your bottom chain must have come off a tooth,

Also I forgot. Hook up timing light to each plug wire to verify that each wire has spark, and the reason it reads so lean is because when it misfires oxygen from the Missfire makes it read lean since the aft sensor detects oxygen, you are most likely not reading lean unless your tune got messed up when you did the gasket
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Post by McHaals »

shift_down wrote:Ya im pretty I did. The lobes faced outwards at 11 oclock and 1 oclock. The tension was placed everywhere on the chain except on the tensioner side. Everything rotates perfectly with no valves hit.
11 and 1 or 9 and 3 ?
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Post by shift_down »

Oh ya, my bad. 9 and 3 is where I have it. It looks just like that
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Post by adamky »

ViperGT wrote:Sounds like your distributer is a tooth off
What he said ^^^
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Post by shift_down »

Okay, I will go redistribute the distributor and report back.
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Post by shift_down »

Okay I am 100% sure that my distributor is perfectly timed. I know this because I rotated the dizzy clockwise and it wanted to die, I then rotated it counter-clockwise and it wanted to die. When I put it directly in the middle, it runs the best. So I concluded that ignition timing is dead on.

So the only other option is I did not put the top chain on correctly, or the bottom chain jumped a tooth. Correct? But is it really possible for the bottom chain to jump a tooth while doing a HG job? Also, would the car even start if the bottom tooth jumped?

Any other options before I pull the front cover back off?
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Post by LPime001 »

Have you disconnected each injector clip one at a time with the engine running to make sure they are all firing?
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Post by shift_down »

ya, injectors are fine
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Post by Gotenks64 »

At this point you may want to tear the timing components down again and redo it. Maybe it did jump a tooth, I don’t like speculating so cams re aligned, and the dizzy reset. Also did you us a timing light? and are you sure the correct cam is on the intake side? maybe you swapped the two.
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Post by McHaals »

shift_down wrote:Okay I am 100% sure that my distributor is perfectly timed. I know this because I rotated the dizzy clockwise and it wanted to die, I then rotated it counter-clockwise and it wanted to die. When I put it directly in the middle, it runs the best. So I concluded that ignition timing is dead on.

So the only other option is I did not put the top chain on correctly, or the bottom chain jumped a tooth. Correct? But is it really possible for the bottom chain to jump a tooth while doing a HG job? Also, would the car even start if the bottom tooth jumped?

Any other options before I pull the front cover back off?
simply set crankshaft to TDC , and see the cams ( 9,3 )
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Post by shift_down »

I did this, and the cams are at 9 and 3. So the top chain is aligned properly?

So this must mean that the bottom chain had jumped?
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Post by shift_down »

Gotenks64 wrote:At this point you may want to tear the timing components down again and redo it. Maybe it did jump a tooth, I don’t like speculating so cams re aligned, and the dizzy reset. Also did you us a timing light? and are you sure the correct cam is on the intake side? maybe you swapped the two.
Okay I will tear the components back down and redo it if neccessary.

I tried using a timing light, but the needle bounces all over the place with respect to the markings on the shaft. This is because every time the car misfires, the needle jumps somewhere else.

Cams are in correct order, very sure of it.
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Post by shift_down »

Okay I pulled the valve cover to verify the dizzy was on. Its perfect. So I took pics of the lobes at TDC to make sure everything is in order. All these pics are TDC of compression stroke. Everything looks fine to me, any feedback?
-

Image
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ImageImageImage
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Post by McHaals »

it looks like 10-2, not 9-3.. at least for me..
(both cams off a tooth )
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Post by shift_down »

I think you may be correct! I was checking JWT's website on how to install cams correctly, but he says to mark the chain before pulling it off. Well, I obviously cannot do that. Is there any other article showing how to install them correctly? I think this may be my problem.

Its hard to think that everything will line up perfectly if its that much off though. I need think about this for a little.
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Post by McHaals »

u need to have 14 'pins'(green) between signs/dots(red)
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u have 12.. def. wrong
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Post by shift_down »

Thank you very much. Ill go work on this right now.
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Post by neverlift »

you face the cams away from each other , with the lobes parallel to the engine(vc mating surface) not the ground.

You dont 'need' to pull the lower cover, just set the engine to tdc then put the cams in properly, the dots are for a faster assembly without thinking..
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Post by shift_down »

Just got done! I manages to drop a bolt in the oil pan lol, I'm not pulling the pan again. Also I started it up and no more misfires! Awesome!
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