Management Sensors and High WHP

Basic tech questions such as future setups, different turbo kits, car diagnosis, etc
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i_slide
240sx Wannabe
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Management Sensors and High WHP

Post by i_slide »

How's it going KA-T. Like the tittle says, I'm curious with what sensors you guys are running on your builds that see about 600+whp.

A few years back I made just shy of 750whp until the turbo grenaded itself on the rollers due to a vacuum line coming off the waste gate. To monitor the engine I had just the very basic essentials such as Wideband, Oil PSI gauge, VAC/Boost gauge, Boost Solenoid and that was all. The vehicle was tuned on AEM and is running a Map sensor. My IAT isn't even hooked up into the cold pipe yet.

The car is finally about to make it back onto the rollers and I'm going to take it full tilt hopefully netting 9XXwhp or in the ballpark. Before it get back onto the rollers I want to square everything away like the odds and ends and that's where my questions about sensors came into mind.

First thing I'm going to do is weld the IAT into the cold pipe so I can see how heat soaked my EMUSA intercooler gets in Cali summers lmao.

Second I'm going to get a Flex Fuel Sensor so I can see my pump e85 octane levels and get a flex fuel tune done so I can cruise worry free or gas containers filled with e85 in the trunk. (I have a octane tester that I have been using manually for about every 5 tankful just to see the consistency between the two gas stations.)

Third on the list but I'm not to sure about is a EGT sensor. The reason I'm not sure is because I don't even know what my engine optimal EGT's should be around. The general rule is below 2000 degrees however. I feel as if EGT sensors aren't much of a critical sensor for a street car but then again it can alarm me if I see the temps climb ridiculously high.

I kind of wanted to install another IAT before the intercooler also but I feel at that point I'm just wasting my cash.

So now that you guys read through all that non critical information, what sensors are you guys running? Is there anything me and the AEM can benefit from when going to make some higher numbers soon? (Both for power and for safety.)

Thank you.
Project - Aries 8.8.1, Crower pro series rods, Kelford 272, 11mm head studs, Five0 2150cc, Magnafuel-4303, PTE6466

Daily - 95 stock block, ARP's, bigger ring gaps etc, 57Trim/63A/R, 550cc, z32 Maf, 93 octane /110 octane maps.

Follow me on Instagram @Prep_40oz
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Greaser
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Re: Management Sensors and High WHP

Post by Greaser »

i wouldn't try to make anything more than 200hp a cylinder on e85. going to end up detonating it. We switched both our shop cars to e98 last year after detonating both on e85.

what version AEM?
IF its a series 2:
coil on plug
Get 2 bosch knock sensors one for cylinders 1,2 and one for 3,4
Individual cylinder o2's with backpressure correction Lets you make sure each cylinder's injector is operating correctly

I wouldnt get egt unless you plan on road racing, 1/2 mile or longer racing. It does help to diagnose a misfire though.

I have everything i just mentioned and thats my recommendation.

and that **** intercooler core is going to hate life at high boost. We had a vibrant 850 core 3.5" thick and ait's at the end of a pass was 160+. We went to a vibrant 4.5" core and dropped ait to 140 at the end of a pass.

half way through the season we wanted to try no intercooler since we were on e98. ait's were 270degrees and we lost 100hp and it knocked a little.
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i_slide
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Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:45 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Management Sensors and High WHP

Post by i_slide »

Thank you for the info I just gained from your reply.

I have never really questioned the limits of e85 on my given setup because I honestly thought that it would take me to my goals. Reading that you experienced knock on both of your shop cars leaves no hesitation in my mind that I will switch from e85 to e98 or similar when I go to reach my goals on the rollers that day. 200hp per cylinder on e85 is a new general rule for me that I'm now happy to know.

I am on series 2 AEM with COP. The COP setup that I am using is off of the Maxima's. Right now the plugs are gapped at .025 at 24psi on my 6464 which is what I generally leave it on a daily basis. (Should be right on the 600whp mark or just shy of it.)

I will 100% get the 2 Bosch sensors the you recommend to let the AEM monitor knock properly. I have not yet searched about the installation of the knock sensors but I know off the top of my head I need to know the ideal spot to install them both and also which calibration would be best to start off with on the KA. If you care to share that would be great but I'm sure some searching around would get me my answers.

The "individual cylinders o2's with back pressure correction" is something I have not yet been familiarized about or even heard about haha. I'm guessing that the turbo manifold would get a wideband mounted in per runner to make sure each cylinder is in the same ballpark? The back pressure correction though have me lost haha.

So basically the EGT I don't have to worry about in my application unless I have spare cash to drop on it because it wouldn't be a critical sensor.

The EMUSA core is total ****! It's a tube/fin design also but the only thing positive I can say about it is it's a 4.5" core lol. I'm going to see how the intercooler handles the boost when I install the IAT and go from there.

Thank you for sharing your experiences and knowledge!!!
Project - Aries 8.8.1, Crower pro series rods, Kelford 272, 11mm head studs, Five0 2150cc, Magnafuel-4303, PTE6466

Daily - 95 stock block, ARP's, bigger ring gaps etc, 57Trim/63A/R, 550cc, z32 Maf, 93 octane /110 octane maps.

Follow me on Instagram @Prep_40oz
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Greaser
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Re: Management Sensors and High WHP

Post by Greaser »

i'm using the same coils.

if its thick like that, it may be alright. just have the ait after the intercooler and not in the intake manifold.

The fact that you're using an ethanol/alcohol based fuel, egt's can be put low on the list. Even with 35psi nitrous early in the pass i never see anything higher than 1500F egt in our cars. If the car was on gas im sure they'd be alot higher. They are absolutely required to diag misfire's under power. Though the datalogger has to be on point.

Depending on the box you have, you may not have a 2nd knock sensor input. The second sensor adds a redundancy and piece of mind to see if both sensors picked up an event in a datalog. I have an S14 ems box wired up in my car because of the huge number of extra switch inputs, 0-5volt inputs, low side and high side outputs.

Its really easy to setup the knock. Just max out the gain to 2 and frequency should be 6.4khz. Do some pulls at low boost pulls to figure out the knock volts curve and enter that into the knock sensor noise threshold map. Look up the manuals for motec's knock monitor. Its got some good info.

aem has a 4 channel o2 controller, check it out. It will communicate o2 data through the CANbus with the EMS. The backpressure correction just corrects the o2 output in relation to exhaust backpressure pre turbo. You can also find out when your turbine is out of flow.

anything near 200hp per cylinder and you really have to educate yourself and monitor/datalog the **** out of EVERY engine support structure.

AEM aq1 is a good logger
racepack V300sd or sportsman or the badass v500sd better loggers
motec, gems in the uk (who actually builds all aem's products and softwares) some of the best loggers.

**** starts to get expensive. But so do backup engines, rebuilds, correctly setup engine programs.
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