How to run LS1 Coils

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EviltoM
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How to run LS1 Coils

Post by EviltoM »

As some of you know Ive been working on the LS1 coil on plug conversion for a while now and finally got around to finishing it up. I like to try new things, especially if it wont cost me a lot. Electronics have always been my thing, but I hate wiring LOL. Anyway, here is the rundown with a load of pics to get as specific as I can.

What you need:

LS1 Coils $88 ($22 each on ebay) GM # 12558948 AC Delco # D580
Coil Connectors $40 ($10 each on eficonnection.com) HO2 Sensor (corvette)
Plug Wires - Free (used Accel wires from a friend)
Shrink Wrap - $2
Wire - $5
Aluminum Channel - $5 (hardware store)
Washers, Screws, Nuts - $10 (hardware store)

Total: $150 for a coil over plug conversion

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Requirements:

Some type of standalone with 4 individual coil outputs. (I use AEM)

How to Get'r Done:

Start by taking off your plug wires, and if you want go ahead and take the distributor cover off, as well as the cap and rotor.
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Now run three wires (I used 16g) unless you have some available already, through the firewall to the passengers side where the harness is for the standalone. You can see I ran them through where my AC connection was using the rubber gasket.
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The grey wire is the signal wire to your original coil, the other three are the wires you ran through the firewall. Mark them with colored tape, and match them on the other side with a DMM so you dont mix up your coils.
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The red circled harness is the harness where your #1 coil wire comes from, along with AC, power steering pressure switch, MAF and a bunch of ground wires. I dont have anything but PS and the coil, so I deleted all those other wires.
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Here is a pic of the brackets I used to fasten the coilpack bracket to the valve cover. I used the middle screws that run along the sparkplug holes.
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Here I am joining all the ground wires together. Make sure you solder all your joined wires together, and use shrink wrap and electrical tape. This wire will be grounded to the head. You can see the bracket is just an L bracket that I got from the hardware store. And the studs that fasten it are the original valve cover bolts.
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The red circled are your signal wires to the ecu.
The pink are the +12v
The green the is head ground.
The yellow is the ecu ground.
See what I did with the bracket?
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Here is the final product pretty much (forgot to take pics inbetween) but there isnt really anything special about it. I have the wires soldered and heat shrink wrapped. I started to tape up the wires to make it look cleaner.
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Closeup of the last one.
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No distributor cover.
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They sit just as high as my turbo, but I have washers in the hinges and it clears just enough.
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Setting up the AEM:

ignition> advanced ING> ignition phasing> options IGN phasing
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setup> sensors> cam/crank sensor> options cam/crank setup
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options> coil

*set 1, 2, 3 & 4 just like this*
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ignition> advanced ING> coil dwell setup> coil dwell
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Make sure you check your timing with a timing light to see if everything is in synch and you dont have any timing drift.

Thanks goes out to: BRAD D for letting me use a few of his aem setup pics without permission. :wink:

First impressions: BADASS! Its like a whole different car. Hot and cold starts are much better. The spark is so much more intense than before. Here is the startup video. Watch how the car wants to stay running after the ignition is turned off. With the stock ignition it was happy to die, now I have to retard timing in the shutdown region so I dont get stuck with the car on and the keys in my hand.

ImageKA24DET with LS1 Coils controlled by AEM. Second start ever.


I will be updating this thread with coil dwell results as there are a few things I left out, as well as a few things to the writup, but most of it is basic wiring.
If there is any interest in a complete kit, let me know and I will make up a harness and sell it as a complete package. Good luck!
Last edited by EviltoM on Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by gawath »

Awesome writeup!

Vote for Sticky!
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Post by BRAD D »

cool, any thing i should up date in my setup? I see dwell plays a big part in my setup... i dont think my car will run @ 10 dwell it breaks up under low rpm and load.
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Post by EviltoM »

Dwell works for me the same at 10 and 20. Try the dwell vs rpm use my settings.
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Post by BRAD D »

kings_blend wrote:Dwell works for me the same at 10 and 20. Try the dwell vs rpm use my settings.
yeah i was looking at mine its all stock right now...
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Post by EviltoM »

Forgot to mention, these are pretty much the stock sr20 settings for the AEM.
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Post by BRAD D »

Well i went for a boot with the dwell vs rpm flat @ 200 and the dwell set at 20. Seemed to run fine...but again at 10 dwell it was bucking at lower rpm.
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Post by slos14 »

gawath wrote:Awesome writeup!

Vote for Sticky!

i second that STICKY
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Post by tastyratz »

awesome writeup -Definitely stickyworthyl! Thanks!!!

So question: This doesnt look like the COP setups I have seen in the past. Usually the plug boot and coil are 1 unit. I didnt even know otherwhise existed. I want to make sure I understand fully.

Can you use regular KA plug wires if you just custom shorten them? Did you use KA wires? I noticed the plugs going onto the coils aren't right angled. Different plugs?

Can you think of anything that might be a problem implementing this on a SOHC setup?

What about Tach functionality?

we may want to include in this thread a compare and contrast between using something such as the AEM or other EMS to control the c.o.p. setup or using a seperate controller such as a c2di

I would probably make a bracket that goes to the stock wire plastic guides and mount them on top of my engine or just higher up. I am assuming that turbo heat will be a big concern for these puppies. Maybe I would be safer bracketing these over on the intake manifold side of life and attach to the fuel rail bracket.

I have the AEM EMS already so this is lookin GOOD to me right now...

FYI to anyone thinking of this you probably can get away with running more plug gap. ls1 specs are for a factory gap of .060! ls1 turbo forums seem to suggest that boosted ls1's run between .030 and .035. Boosted LS1's are going to be pushing more HP but I dont know how much the cylinder pressures will compare. More than likely we can probably get away with a .030 or .035 gap as well ourselves
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Post by EviltoM »

tastyratz wrote:awesome writeup -Definitely stickyworthyl! Thanks!!!

So question: This doesnt look like the COP setups I have seen in the past. Usually the plug boot and coil are 1 unit. I didnt even know otherwhise existed. I want to make sure I understand fully.
The term is "Coil Near Plug", your still using 6" wires instead of ~12". Same concept.
Can you use regular KA plug wires if you just custom shorten them? Did you use KA wires? I noticed the plugs going onto the coils aren't right angled. Different plugs?
I used a set of junk LS1 wires from a friend. 90* would work better and when I upgrade thats what Ill use. You could use the KA wires if you have the right tools to shorten them.
Can you think of anything that might be a problem implementing this on a SOHC setup?
I have never owned a SOHC and probably never will so this you will have to find out for yourself.
What about Tach functionality?
Has nothing to do with it. You are just wiring in the available coil drivers and some +12v and ground....
we may want to include in this thread a compare and contrast between using something such as the AEM or other EMS to control the c.o.p. setup or using a seperate controller such as a c2di
This is up to you, I just made the writeup for anyone wanting to try something cheap and different. I only have an AEM to test out so I cant try it on any other standalone, but I guarantee you it will work the same, it has been done a million times on different cars. This is just a simple ignition setup. A C2DI is an ignitor to use with different coils, ie. motorcycle coils, etc., The LS1 coils have built in "dumb" ignitors in each coil.
I would probably make a bracket that goes to the stock wire plastic guides and mount them on top of my engine or just higher up. I am assuming that turbo heat will be a big concern for these puppies. Maybe I would be safer bracketing these over on the intake manifold side of life and attach to the fuel rail bracket.
Ive driven the car hard and touched the coils with no dissapointment. They are made to withstand high temps. The only temp you have to worry about is when you up the dwell. Look at where they sit on an LS1.
I have the AEM EMS already so this is lookin GOOD to me right now...
Yes
FYI to anyone thinking of this you probably can get away with running more plug gap. ls1 specs are for a factory gap of .060! ls1 turbo forums seem to suggest that boosted ls1's run between .030 and .035. Boosted LS1's are going to be pushing more HP but I dont know how much the cylinder pressures will compare. More than likely we can probably get away with a .030 or .035 gap as well ourselves
Yes you can get away with more plug gap I just havent bothered trying it yet.
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Post by tastyratz »

kings_blend wrote: I used a set of junk LS1 wires from a friend. 90* would work better and when I upgrade thats what Ill use. You could use the KA wires if you have the right tools to shorten them.

Thanks, I will attack it. Plug wires arent anything special beyond any other regular wires with crimp connects.
kings_blend wrote: This is up to you, I just made the writeup for anyone wanting to try something cheap and different. I only have an AEM to test out so I cant try it on any other standalone, but I guarantee you it will work the same, it has been done a million times on different cars. This is just a simple ignition setup. A C2DI is an ignitor to use with different coils, ie. motorcycle coils, etc., The LS1 coils have built in "dumb" ignitors in each coil.
Thank you for clarifying. I wasnt sure of the 100% exact purpose of people running the boxes coupled with an aem ems (besides some offering multistrike which I dont think we can or know how to enable it in the ems)
Keep us posted if you mess with dwell time and your end results.
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Post by TheOne »

so how do you wire these into the ems? i still don't understand the wiring for it, did you wire'em straight to the ems ecu or something?

(could you expand the write-up with a better description of the wiring is what am pretty much asking)
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Post by EviltoM »

Theres nothing complicated about it. Look at the pinout of the EMS. It has 4 coil drivers. You wire each coil to one of those. Thats all. 4 wires to the EMS. 3 really because the first coil wire is already in the engine bay you just get rid of your old nissan coil and run the wire to the new one.
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Post by 1991Silvia »

can this be applied with a stock ecu????
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Post by EviltoM »

Not at all.
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Post by AceInHole »

I'm wondering if the Greddy Emanage Ultimate can handle something like this......
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Post by EviltoM »

Unfortunately it cannot. I just checked it out and couldnt find any ignition driver features. Sorry.
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Post by JGSturbo »

Those have to be close to the hood :shock:
The LS2 coils are flatter, supposedly more efficient :?

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Post by wheelzinmotion »

Great write-up ! ! !

I'm taking some notes, as I'm planning in doing a very similar setup with my EMS, however I see that the photo that used to have the color circles that referred to each color coded cable is gone and now the photo doesn't have those color circles. On your post you wrote the following, referring to the picture with the missing color circles:

The red circled are your signal wires to the ecu.
The pink are the +12v
The green the is head ground.
The yellow is the ecu ground

Also, please let me know if you had time to work/try/explore/evaluate different dwell times.

THX
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Post by EviltoM »

wheelzinmotion wrote:Great write-up ! ! !

I'm taking some notes, as I'm planning in doing a very similar setup with my EMS, however I see that the photo that used to have the color circles that referred to each color coded cable is gone and now the photo doesn't have those color circles. On your post you wrote the following, referring to the picture with the missing color circles:

The red circled are your signal wires to the ecu.
The pink are the +12v
The green the is head ground.
The yellow is the ecu ground

Also, please let me know if you had time to work/try/explore/evaluate different dwell times.

THX
Hey I remember you PMing me a while back, sorry I didnt get back to you, my inbox is always flooded and I delete msg's carelessly.

I added the colors to the pic for ya.

Unfortunately, I didnt get to play with the dwell times, but the one I listed worked flawlessly so I wouldnt bother.
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Post by wheelzinmotion »

Thank you very much for getting back to me with the info and for also uploading the correct color coded photo. A few days ago I received a set of 4 LS2 coils marked as 12573190, and see that they have the same color coding as yours, the only difference I can observe is that the order on the color wires is the opposite compared to the plug clip position. I guess that the color coding is still correct, with only inverse position.

As for the wires, please corroborate the following:

The red circled are your signal wires to the ecu
* gray coil wire = cyl 1 = AEM dedicated PnP stock coil #1 (pin 1 in the 10-1611)
* purple coil wire = cyl 2 = AEM spare coil #2 (pin 58 in the 10-1611)
* green coil wire = cyl 3 = AEM spare coil #3 (pin 64 in the 10-1611)
* red coil wire = cyl 4 = AEM spare coil #4 (pin 36 in the 10-1611)

The pink are the +12v
* 12V ignition switched. Please let me know if I can use the "High Side Driver #1 / Output / Avail, +12V, 1.5A Max" (pin 11 in the 10-1611) for it. Is 1.5A enough to feed all 4 coils, or should I go with a separate relay circuit?

The green is the head ground
* Chassis ground

The yellow is the ecu ground
* Please let me know if you are tapping this "ecu ground" to a specific ground pin in the AEM. Please let us know if it would be like tapping one of the many "ECCS Ground", which AEM describes as input, or tapping the "Sensor Ground" (pin 50 in the 10-1611) which AEM describes as output, or using one of the other ground outputs that the AEM provides and are referred as:
- Avail, Switched Gnd, 1.5A Max
- Avail, Ground / +12V, 1.5A Max

I would like to know what's the difference between these two, the Sensor Ground (pin 50 in the 10-1611) or just tapping the yellow with the green (Chassis ground)

Finally, after looking very closely to your photos, it looks like the green circle that you describe as head ground consists of the tapping of all four brown color wires. However in the previous photo you mention that you are tapping all four black color wires and will be grounded to the head. Please corroborate if the brown coil wires are chassis ground or ECU ground. Consequently the black color wires will be the other one.

Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with the KA community...
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Post by EviltoM »

wheelzinmotion wrote:Thank you very much for getting back to me with the info and for also uploading the correct color coded photo. A few days ago I received a set of 4 LS2 coils marked as 12573190, and see that they have the same color coding as yours, the only difference I can observe is that the order on the color wires is the opposite compared to the plug clip position. I guess that the color coding is still correct, with only inverse position.
First of all, LS1 coild are negative triggered, LS2 are positive triggered. Complete opposite, so you will have to change the jumpers in your AEM box in order to use the LS2 coils, PM JGSTurbo, he has done it in the past I believe.
The red circled are your signal wires to the ecu
* gray coil wire = cyl 1 = AEM dedicated PnP stock coil #1 (pin 1 in the 10-1611)
* purple coil wire = cyl 2 = AEM spare coil #2 (pin 58 in the 10-1611)
* green coil wire = cyl 3 = AEM spare coil #3 (pin 64 in the 10-1611)
* red coil wire = cyl 4 = AEM spare coil #4 (pin 36 in the 10-1611)
I have a 1600 box so mine are most likely different but yes they go to their designated coil output pin on the AEM.
The pink are the +12v
* 12V ignition switched. Please let me know if I can use the "High Side Driver #1 / Output / Avail, +12V, 1.5A Max" (pin 11 in the 10-1611) for it. Is 1.5A enough to feed all 4 coils, or should I go with a separate relay circuit?
I just ran a wire to my alternator so I can have the best power source for the coils.
The green is the head ground
* Chassis ground
Head ground, meaning grounded to the head itself. I used the screws on the right of the exhaust manifold by the firewall on back of the head.
The yellow is the ecu ground
* Please let me know if you are tapping this "ecu ground" to a specific ground pin in the AEM. Please let us know if it would be like tapping one of the many "ECCS Ground", which AEM describes as input, or tapping the "Sensor Ground" (pin 50 in the 10-1611) which AEM describes as output, or using one of the other ground outputs that the AEM provides and are referred as:
- Avail, Switched Gnd, 1.5A Max
- Avail, Ground / +12V, 1.5A Max
I think i used just the sensor ground, whatever the cluster of ground wires int he main harness goes to thats what I used, most likely sensor ground.
I would like to know what's the difference between these two, the Sensor Ground (pin 50 in the 10-1611) or just tapping the yellow with the green (Chassis ground)
Sensor ground goes back to the ecu directly, head ground is just grounded to the head itself.
Finally, after looking very closely to your photos, it looks like the green circle that you describe as head ground consists of the tapping of all four brown color wires. However in the previous photo you mention that you are tapping all four black color wires and will be grounded to the head. Please corroborate if the brown coil wires are chassis ground or ECU ground. Consequently the black color wires will be the other one.

Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with the KA community...
The wire isnt brown in that pic, its a black wire I soldered in to extent the length, but use this as your guide.
http://www.motec.com.au/drawings/m32.pdf
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Post by wheelzinmotion »

Thanks for the info. I still need to corroborate the AEM output configuration for driving the LS2 coils.

Also, I recently found the following wiring diagram from Link Electrosystems Ltd., which provide the actual wiring configuration for the LS2 coils. With this diagram, I was able to corroborate what I suspected. The color code is exactly the same as the LS1, but the pin terminals are arranged in exact REVERSE order. Also, they connect both ground wires (green and yellow circles) to the engine block. I guess that's another alternative to wire them.

http://www.linkecu.com/support/dlandswu ... lation/I16

They also mention about installing a 1-2 µF suppressor for this particular LS2 coil.

Below you may read their explanation taken from: http://www.linkecu.com/support/dlandswu ... tallManual
LinkPlusG3 Wiring & Installation Manual © Link ElectroSystems 2006 Page 49, Section 8.2.3 - Ignition Suppression.
Without exception ALL ignition systems must be suppressed. Failure to do so may cause the ECU to behave erratically, especially at high power. Symptoms include misfiring, erratic RPM readings and the ECU performing repetitive resets. The following rules must be followed:

● ALL applications must also employ a suppressor capacitor (0.5 - 3uF) connected directly between the ignition coil(s) POSITIVE terminal and ground. Most points condensers are suitable. Multiple coils can share a single suppressor. ‘V’ and boxer engines with multiple coils must have a suppressor on each bank.
Lastly, I still need to double check the trigger needed by the LS2 coils, as according to the aforementioned installation manual, the built in igniter is driven by a ground signal from the ECU. If that's the case then the LS2 would be ground triggered, just like the LS1. Maybe JGSTurbo can chime in and provide this info, but just an additional quick note... the LS2 coils that are shown in the KA24E pics above (from JGSTurbo) are not the same ones that I have. I believe those ones are called 1st gen, and the ones that I have are the 2nd gen, which are exactly the same as the ones shown in the above diagram. I'll keep you all posted with my findings...
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Post by 240-kid »

Would the Scion xB Coils be powerful enough to be an actual upgrade?
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Post by EviltoM »

I have no idea but I do doubt it. It would be nice if they did, to give you more options. But you would need an ignition box to fire them because they more than likely do not have built in ignitors. Thats the whole point of using these coils. Plus they are cheap!
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Post by s Trust x »

maybe I missed it,,.. but what was used as IGN trigger for the AEM system to fire these coils?? was it is the cas in the distributor??
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Post by EviltoM »

Yes. If you look at the pics I still have the distributor in place, just took the cap and rotor off.
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Post by sav180 »

would any sr20 coils work instead of the Ls1/2 coils???
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Post by eDmSiL80 »

will the aem stand alone read the stock distributor? or will i need coil packs...
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Post by Gonad »

Just curious, how come you didn't use the "COIL WIZARD" in AEM to switch to the LS1 coils?

It would have adjusted all your offsets and factor, correct?

What are the effects of having the wrong coil settings?
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