Dowel Pin: Block to Head

Advanced discussion of improving KA-T components
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DEEPfrom1
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Dowel Pin: Block to Head

Post by DEEPfrom1 »

I swear that Ill stop making new threads everyday, someday. Until that day actually happens, here is what I have for you today.

I got my head back from the machine shop, and it looks like they didn't pull the dowel out when they resurfaced. So my question is, how many dowel pins should there be for the block to head. Also, how vital are these on the ka, are they structural or just for lining up the head to the block. I know on B-series Honda's they are quite important.


Thanks again!
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revolutionz_s13
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Post by revolutionz_s13 »

I think there are only 2....I didnt put mine in when I put my head on, I think they are just to line things up because stock the motor uses head bolts. I switched to headstuds so everything lined up and stayed in place for me. Not sure if that is the correct way to do it, but thats how it ended up for me.
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DEEPfrom1
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Post by DEEPfrom1 »

Thanks for the input. I still want to hear a few more opinions before I disregard them. Anyone else have information on these particular dowels?
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supakat
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Post by supakat »

check your block for the dowels. rarely do i see dowels on the head or stick to the head when you pull them apart. they are snug in the block. so snug that when they are there from factory, you will need to pull them with a vise grip.

also, the machine shop would not deck a block without removing the dowels.

If you are not running studs, then you will need these to correctly line up the head with block or else you run a chance on damaging the HG. I have arp hardware and I am still use the pins. you can probably do without but i would not seems to me that if you do not have them, the head could be slightly off a thou which is not much but i dont like taking chances. trust me, i dont want to have to take this motor out my car again for the rest of the time i own it.
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KoukiKAT
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Post by KoukiKAT »

What size head studs supakat?

My motor on the stand has 11mm and no locating dowels. Not sure if I could have fit them. Head is very well located by the studs, and clearance between stud and head bolt hole is very minimal, except at undercut stud in the oiling passage. I will remove that undercut stud just to check the oiling passage to make sure the alignment is adequate for oil flow and that the gasket doesn't intrude on the oil passage at all. Clean it up with a cylindrical cutting dowel, brush it out and blow dry. Other than that, I don't think it needs attention, but I could read this later and eat my words. If anything, timing chain assembly may suffer wear, but perhaps not.

Best of luck to all.
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Post by supakat »

http://arp-bolts.com/images/releases/pdfs/202-4304.pdf

I have 10mm studs. With the 11mm you should not be able to fit them.

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smracing
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Post by smracing »

They fit with 11mm studs. And yes, you need them.
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Post by supakat »

smracing wrote:They fit with 11mm studs. And yes, you need them.
let me take mine back, i put a pic of 1/2" studs. thanks for the clarification sm.
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Post by eazye2000 »

They are like, hollow little jobby's like pictured above. I don't think a competent machinist would just grind them off.
Also, they usually stay in the block.

I have a pair if you need them, or can't find yours or whatever. Couple bucks for postage.

I'm also using 10mm ARP's, and I still used them on my motor. I think they can also help with keeping everything in line when you heat cycle the head/block and to help aid in not having the head/block scrub eachother and mess up your gasket surface. Not sure if I'm saying this right or not... hah

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revolutionz_s13
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Post by revolutionz_s13 »

smracing wrote:They fit with 11mm studs. And yes, you need them.
So you're saying its a good idea to take my head off and put them in? I have mine, I just didnt notice that they werent in the block when I put my head on, and figured the headstuds would keep everything lined up....
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Kfred
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Post by Kfred »

Mine almost always stick in the head :?. I couldn't get them out of my head, and brought them in the head to the machine shop. I got the head back with both of them tied to an exhaust stud with utility wire.
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DEEPfrom1
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Post by DEEPfrom1 »

Anyone have any creative ideas on how I should get the one out of my head? It is flush in the head.


Thanks.
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Post by KoukiKAT »

Pry it out with a screwdriver or something similiar. They aren't that deep. Just be sure to protect the deck so as not to scratch or mar it. Once you get enough of it showing, you can grab it with a pair of pliers and compress it and squeeze it and pull it out.
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Kfred
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Post by Kfred »

When the machine shop hot tanks the head the dowels usually fall out. You could try heating the head in boiling water...
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Post by KYLEBRENAY »

Dont need them, when using head studs. When I put mine togethor a year and a half ago with 10mm head studs I forgot to put them in and havnt had any problems.
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R34SR
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Post by R34SR »

Just put my motor together and forgot to put these back in ...searched and found this thread....i'm gonna pray you are right kyle, cause i really dont wanna lift my head for this lil ****.
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