nitrous discussion

Advanced discussion of improving KA-T components
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turbonola
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nitrous discussion

Post by turbonola »

just wanted to get a discussion about this kicked off. i've been reading up on the effects of spraying turbo cars and the general consensus is that on f.i. cars it has a larger effect on torque and cylinders pressure. i wanna try it out myself instead of running 30+psi of boost and just because of the cooling effect and the ability to help spool turbo's. if you have any information on nitrous please feel free to add to this discussion.

p.s.
i searched and found a meth thread but no nitrous threads. hopefully this can benifit the community
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curios

Post by slidewayzagain »

I too am curios, but want to have spray for top end purposes.
In process of hy35w kat running 20psi, thought about opening waste gate while spaying.
Would i theoreticaly gain a qaurter panels length with this method, or just stay d same(ie drag situation) :wink:
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Post by 1991240sxhatch »

i was wondering the same thing, i started looking around for info and this is what i could find

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie- ... turbo.html
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Post by turbonola »

i read that thread too, like everywhere on the web there are alot of lies and alot of truths in there. its a good read though.
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Post by diegofilth »

nitrous is good, theres so much safety stuff out there, that is almost impossible to blow an engine, thats of course taking into note,the limits of the kit and the engine itself .

im currently spraying my LS ,and i´ll be spraying my next ka-t as well
flat black > chrome

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Post by supakat »

I knew someone who had a z31 on 10lbs, stock turbo, fmic, etc. He installed a zex dry kit with a 50 shot. After dyno, he netted 60 more whp and torque. This was back in 2003.

Personally, I don't see the need to spray unless dragging and you have a 70mm or bigger turbo. For the street, no2 can be expensive and traction is an issue. I ran a zex 75 shot and would have to fill up every two weeks. And that was with conservative spraying. I could only spray after 50mph. Before that, I would just spin. When at the track, I could spray out the hole.
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Post by turbonola »

the nitrous for me would be used as a double agent. increase in power and the cooling effect, it would also allow me to increase power without increasing boost which is my ultimate goal. i wanna get in the 10's without going pas 22psi and nitrous seems like the best way for me to do that aside from changing out my coilovers at the track to allow for more squat. if used properly n20 can be very rewarding. 22 psi on my setup alone would net me 120+mph passes. i want 140+mph passes which means running a big shot eventually. i think the only thing my fully built setup needs is a set of 11mm headstuds, bigger injectors, a retune and a tubular manifold. i'm seriously contemplating ms2 or 3 standalone

for refrence:
arias 8.7 to 1 standard bore pistons
eagle rods
10mm arp head studs
arp mains
turbonetics 62-1 .70a/r compressor .63 a/r turbine
custom log mani and downpipe
660cc inj
holley fpr
emance tune w/2 step

suspension is drift oriented:
megan tracks
adj rucas, toe, tension and flca
poly filled mounts


setup is gonna change before i test out the spray though.
my brother is donating:
z32 tranny
120lb injectors

i'm sourcing:
q45 diff and axles
custom driveshaft
275/50/15 drag radials
350z clutch
rb flywheel
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Post by turbonola »

has anyone had personal experience with nitrous?
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Post by supakat »

Only n/a with a ga16de. Zex 75 shot dry kit.
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Post by cjr »

Use a dry kit I put together from mostly used parts. I have never made a full pass on it. Use for spool up when racing on a pro tree and for bracket racing on the big end.

Only have one noid to run no2 wide open throttle switch is also wired into ecu to change to change timing and fuel maps. With efi I think dry is the only way to go.
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Post by turbonola »

what ecu were you running cjr
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Post by cjr »

bikirom :cry: It works just NO support.
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N20

Post by zenkies14 »

i sprayed a 75 wet shot on a 220k+ plus ka(broken odometer) for two years never had a problem sold the car to a friend still have the kit if interested im only about an hour from you
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Post by Jus14 »

I myself have had alot of fun times with nitrous....100 shot on a 03 focus 01 escort and my current 97 240and coming soon a 50 shot on our nissan versa i have used dry wet and direct port... used wet and it according to widebands and data logging kept a better afr of course not f.i. just bolt on cars but the 240 i done a direct port it hosted the most useable power hence the trans eventually giving up so i took it off and started to boost it...but i used the smart box each time it almost had a idiot proof setup not allowing you to blow it which was superb...in the end if you have good fuel pressure and platinum and iridium plugs are a no no otherwise spray the piss out of it...
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Post by turbonola »

thanks for all the responses folks. i've decided to use a wet shot starting out with a 35 shot. now i just have to figure out a solution to retard timing only when i spray. i wanna get it right the first time so i'm gonna overbuild the nitrous setup. any standalone timing retard suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by Jus14 »

so are you going to be on boost with nitrous? Reason i asked because i never touched timing til i started getting a 75 shot or above and even then wasnt very dramatic
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Post by turbonola »

yeah i'm running 18psi now and i wanna try a 35 shot on the dyno to see what that equates to then move the shot up and see what happens
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Post by Kfred »

If you are running a factory based ecu, I would run a blow through setup with the mafs on the hot pipe. Spray a dry shot just before the cold pipe enters the intercooler.

The mafs will be able to sense the extra air mass coming into the engine.

Atmospheric air contains approximately 21 vol% (and mol%) oxygen.

N2O = (MWo/(MWn+MWo)) = 36 vol% oxygen

The mass of air increase will be accounted for, but the increased oxygen content won't be. Therefore, if the N2O had no affect on IATs the ecu would not pull enough timing to account for the power increase. However, since N2O will cool the charge you can probably get away with a little more timing anyway.

That is how I would do it, unless I had a standalone.
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Post by Kfred »

I've been kicking around ideas about where would be the best place to shoot a dry shot of nitrous.

I'm starting to think pre-turbo might be optimal.

Nitrous oxide will never be present as in the liquid form at the pressures seen in the intake or charge pipes. So you don't have to worry about liquid getting on the compressor wheel. You can only do this with a wet shot though, definitely wouldn't do this with a wet or fogger kit.

The efficiency of a centrifugal compressor is a strong function of vapor density. I will have to try and dig up my notes on centrifugal compressor efficiency. I know that compressor efficiency will be significantly increased by lowering the temperature of the suction. I can give a rule of thumb about how much it is improved if I can find my notes.
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Post by turbonola »

i'm just gonna run a wet shot so i dont have to worry about the fuel pump being maxed out. what you are talking about doing sounds ok but i'd rather go the tried and true way of slowly increasing the wet shot until i cant do it without knocking. then we'll back off timing.
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Post by trk240sx »

Wet shot only, keep it on the rich side to start, work towards correct AFR. Im sure if you call some of the well established companies(ie NOS) they could tell you exactly what you need. Experience is a wonderful thing.
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Post by Kfred »

Spraying a wet shot at low rpms to spool a turbo is asking for trouble. The only choice you have for low rpm sprays is a dry shot or a direct port fogger system.

I would be scared **** to spray a wet shot into a stock intake manifold ka. Especially below 4000 rpms. The ka manifold has really long runners and it is known to have air distribution issues. You are asking for a backfire unless you only spray a small shot on the top end imo.

If you just want a small shot on the top end, wet will probably suffice.

If you want a small shot to get a turbo spooling, go dry. You can spray it pre mafs and your computer will keep the injectors open longer and pull some timing out to compensate for the extra air. You can run a regulated n2o line to the fuel pressure regulator while on the shot if you need more fuel enrichment. Your fuel will be injected right before the intake valve so you don't have to worry about puddling in the intake.

A tuned dry setup with a n2o dedicated fuel map is the best way to go (direct port foggers are excellent but expensive). Saying that a wet kit is better than a dry kit is like saying carbs are better than efi. You are telling me that not measuring the incoming nitrous (function of bottle pressure and intake pressure) and spraying a fixed amount of fuel into the plenum is superior to measuring the nitrous and spraying a corresponding amount of fuel just before the intake valves?

Wet kits work well on some cars. These cars have short intake runners and loose stall converters.

I think smracing made some posts about his old nitrous setup somewhere on here. Se if you can dig them up.

If you google it everyone says run a wet kit because its safer, they are just repeating what they heard. Most people running a wet kit are just running them because people told them they are safer. Its an on going cycle.

I will end my rant here I just wanted to give you my views on nitrous. Good luck with whatever decision you make. Don't take anyones word for what you should run, including mine. Reason your way through what would be best for your intended use.
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Post by NeverSatisfied »

Great info, I learned something. Thanks Kfred :)
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Post by turbonola »

well i already have a wet setup sitting at the shop so i figured i'd use it. i have been thinking about a direct port setup but i dont wanna spend that much on it right now. i will probably be spraying from 3500rpm to 6500rpm just to take full advantage of the nitrous.
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Post by turbonola »

sorry to revive my dying thread but just wanted to see if anyone was able to find out more about nitrous benifits on boosted motors
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Post by turbonola »

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Post by turbonola »

gsp gt3582 turbo finally came in, we'll see how long this last and how much power i can push through this thing.
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Post by turbonola »

bump, soon
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Post by turbonola »

very soon now
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Post by supakat »

What do you plan to run in the 1/4?
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