initial degreel settings for my bcv2 cam gurus ENTER

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all shal perrish
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initial degreel settings for my bcv2 cam gurus ENTER

Post by all shal perrish »

hey guys, im swapping in my built motor next weekend and this time im degreeing in my cams ( just bought jwt gears and a degree wheel, and i have all the necessary measuring equipment )

little info about my setup---

built motor
e85
hx40 with .63 ar housing
bcv2 cams
LONG tubular manifold
xcessive intake manifold

i would like to get my power-band from about 3500-400 and have it stretch out to 7300 were i rev the motor out to ( stock springs and valves )

im hopping to make around 600-650 hp this summer, and to achieve that power i will need to run 30-40 psi of boost so we will use 35 psi as my target boost..

now, i was wondering if any of you cam gurus could point me in the right direction as to how to setup my cams, how much overlap to shoot for ect ect.

from everything ive read i believe i should retard the exhaust 5 deg and advanc e the intake 2.5 deg... i could be way way way off, hense why im asking for help...



thanks for the help in advance...

adam
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Post by supakat »

I wish I could help you but I chimed in so I can see comments. I am pretty sure picking up a blue printing book or something similar would help. I am currently reading Performance Fuel Injection systems which is straightforward. By far, chapter 12 is when things start getting interesting.
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Post by Super Coupe »

I cannot wait to see what kind of numbers this puts down, only so I have hope! You might want to post another thread on Zilvia, they have a lot more traffic with some pretty knowledgeable members.
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Post by all shal perrish »

i hate zilvia, ill either get some help here, or figure it out myself... ive read a thread that has some pertty good settings from a gentleman who gained 100whp with degreeing his cams and intake... so if i dont hear from anyone else ill just use those as my baseline settings
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Post by all shal perrish »

engine is going in next weekend, im gonna start by retarding the intake cam 2.5 deg and advancing exhaust 2.5 and go from there, then i might give advancing the exhaust another 2.5 ( for a total of 5 deg ) to see how that changes things.. anyway, just seeing if anyone who has done this PERSONALLY has any thoughts,
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Post by Super Coupe »

Will be interested to hear how she performs!!
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Post by all shal perrish »

HA, you and me both.. wont be turning the wick up on it untill mid may though, so dont hold your breath, i am going to wait till i move and have access to e85 before i lean on this motor at all, dont want a repeat of my stock motor on a built block LOL
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Post by supakat »

I wanna see as well. I just got some crower 264's for $240 shipped. Great deal.

http://www.crower.com/nissan-ka24de-doh ... hafts.html
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Post by Super Coupe »

Someone push their holset/motor to the limit! :lol:

Blah jealous of built motors. Hopefully I can get one together soon, once I do this stock motor is getting strapped to the dyno to see what she puts out!

Funny how everything starts out simple. Then you want more and more, ends up being a damn money pit!
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Post by turbonola »

i've got my bc v2 cams w/ jwt gears in the stock position until i can find someone to help me degree them. in for more info.

on a side note just setting them to a certain degree without degreeing scarews me because jwt says valves may hit head without proper degreeing.
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Post by supakat »

When you go to degree, make sure to rotate by hand before you turn on.

I remember reading on here someone stating to retard the intake 2.5 and advance the exhaust 5 degrees per JWT.
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Post by turbonola »

yeah, i'd still rather do it the right way by degreeing them properly
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Post by ICEMAN.KCMO »

I bought a degree wheel and the dial gauge to degree mine. I want to see exactly where they are at first, then hopefully someone will have some solid numbers to degree them to.. I will be running some 264's also. But i will be running them with a gt2860r .82 ar exhaust. I think it should be fun..
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Post by turbonola »

gt 28's are awesome turbo's. quick spool and ungodly tq. i miss my gt2876r sometimes. lol
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Post by RosadoRacing »

idk much bout degreeing cams or cam gears or what's the benefits. But i think you'll be fine with stock settings i made 660whp on 32psi with my cam gears on stock settings. I have a question tho would moving the cam gears need a change in the tune? Just asking in case i feel like someday degreeing the cams for a wider powerband.
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Post by Walperstyle »

Only information I have bookmarked on V2 is
viewtopic.php?t=41520&highlight=crower+cams

and

viewtopic.php?t=42833&highlight=

hope it helps.
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Post by adamky »

RosadoRacing wrote:idk much bout degreeing cams or cam gears or what's the benefits.


The benefits could be lots of untapped power. One user, bonoskmat, I think, picked up somewhere around 75-100 HP by degreeing his cams.
RosadoRacing wrote: But i think you'll be fine with stock settings i made 660whp on 32psi with my cam gears on stock settings.
That doesn't in any way mean your settings are ideal or that other people shouldn't still try to find the best possible settings. There have been people on here that made about the same power before/after installing BC V2s using stock cam gears. The biggest problem with BCs is that they rarely come close to matching the cam card when installed in stock positions. I've heard of them being as much as 10 degrees off. They are good cams when dialed in. They just need a little work to get them there.


And after spouting all that off, I still don't know the ideal settings. It's always good to set them to match the cam card first, and see how they perform. Then, adjust as necessary. It could take several tries and multiple street/dyno pulls before you find your ideal settings.
Wiseco/Eagle, JWT S1 cams, BC valve springs, PT5857, ID1700 injectors, SR20DET ECU w/ Nismotronic, COP conversion with LS ignition coils, etc, etc...
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Post by all shal perrish »

got the built motor in, it was a nightmare of broken and stripped bolts and little crap like that, ,but it is in and runing..

the settings i have now on my cams are intake retarted 2.5 deg and exhaust advanced 5 deg, i couldnt get my degree wheel and my brain to work together and got pissed ( mind you this was at 400 am after being up all night pulling the blow motor apart ) so i just threw the cams in how i said above, the car has a slight lope at idle, but i did notice the exhaust is SIGNIFICANTLY hotter than before, i havent gotten on it really, but it does seem fairly lazy and doesnt spool much if at all faster than before :(
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Post by Super Coupe »

^ Weird you mention the exhaust being hotter. When my turbo was on my brothers car I mentioned the same thing, he however did not think much of it. Turbo is now on my car and I am sure it is way hotter.

I wonder why its not spooling correctly. What do you have the boost set at? I know that they need a good amount of boost to breath . AFR's?

Have you boost leak tested? Something worth mentioning, some people have had trouble with the snap ring sealing the compressor. They ended up using a small amount of RTV around the lip. There was also a mention of ONE HX on dsm tuners that would not build boost over 10 psi, they then threw on another turbo and it had no issue building boost, they never figured out what was wrong with it.

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Post by all shal perrish »

i atribute the heat to cam timing, before i didnt have this much heat with the same cams in the stock location, im going to try advancing the intake cam back to stock and see what that does, as far as afrs, they are in the 10s and that is were they are staying untill i put e85 on this motor, my timing is also SUPER SUPER retarted either way, im not leaning on this block untill i put e85 in it ( like 3 weeks )
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Post by adamky »

My car developed some more lope when I changed my cam settings as well. I didn't notice the exhaust being any hotter. Didn't really pay attention to it though. Are you sure your ignition timing didn't get messed up? That could cause a hotter exhaust as well.

I'm running the exhaust advanced 5 degrees, and the intake retarded 5 degrees (from the cam card settings). I think I only actually moved the intake cam 2.5 degrees, as it was already 3 degrees off from the cam card when installed in stock positions.

Did you use a degree wheel and write down your opening and closing events? I'd be curious to see where they are now.
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Post by all shal perrish »

i had the degree wheel on the motor and was degreeing them but got frustrated partly because i was flat out exhausted and there was also a slight communication break down between all of us in the garage so we slapped it together with the intake dialed back 2.5 deg and the exhaust advanced 5 deg

so basically i haven't measured my opening / closing events, and my intake cam is set in the position A on the intake cam gear and my exhaust cam is on position 3 on the exhaust cam gear
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Post by adamky »

Cool. It's not like I'd be able to give any advice based on the numbers! I was just curious.
Wiseco/Eagle, JWT S1 cams, BC valve springs, PT5857, ID1700 injectors, SR20DET ECU w/ Nismotronic, COP conversion with LS ignition coils, etc, etc...
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Post by Walperstyle »

The big mis-understanding I had with the JWT cam gears when doing degreeing was understanding how to use them properly.

Not only do you move it to a different hole, but you have to match the hole with the tooth. A to A, B to B, 3 to 3 etc.

Make sure you are not just turning the cam to the next hole, because I found out first hand that the CL changed from 110 to 140-something. It was crazy. Good thing I didn't just swap the motor in and start driving!

(make sure you have those 14 chain points between each cam. Youtube ka24detiming video for my explanation on this, its not perfect, but it makes better sense then counting links)
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Post by supakat »

When adjusting, you leave the sprocket in the stock timing location with chain, unbolt, turn camshaft with wrench to line up dowel with degree position you want on sprocket, and bolt down. If you move the sprocket, you are defeating the purpose.

This is more of a question and reassurance thing. I have never done any degreeing but common sense tells me this. Let me know if I am wrong or right.
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Post by Walperstyle »

^That is what I thought as well. This I believe is wrong... I actually just deleted a bunch of extra videos I made on Degreeing cams because I was learning as I did it.

When I did the method you just said, the numbers were way off, being if you leave the cam gear alone and only rotate the cam, you are skipping several degrees.
supakat wrote: If you move the sprocket, you are defeating the purpose.
That is what I thought, but to get the 2.5 degrees, you have to move the sprocket and match Dowell to Tooth/Marker.

...this is very hard to explain. The only way I figured it out was I had to put my car to stock timing, and match the colored link to the same letter I had my dowel in.

edit: I really need to re-make my degreeing videos. Would be nice to have the wife film me or something so I can have some hands free and show you guys in real time exactly what I have been doing.


If I were to be doing the degreeing again, I would take down these measurements [

INTAKE/EXHAUST
OPEN @ .001
OPEN @ .050
CENTER(MAX LIFT)
CLOSE @ .050
CLOSE @ .001


This will give you 10 points to verify where things are happening, and give you a feel if your cams are damaged or off at all. ...but TDC is very important, double check with a degree wheel so you know absolutely where TDC is, that way you can be off a degree or two and It won't really matter. But right now, what you are saying makes me figure you could be upwards of 10 degrees off and un-certain of where your cams really are.
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Post by Walperstyle »

That said dudes, I've not had my engine on the dyno yet, I can only verify what I've done with my dial indicator on my engine stand, but I'm glad to help out with what I do know.
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Post by supakat »

So for you technique, you have to move the chain as well? Seems very odd. When you installed the cams, did you swap the intake and exhaust as BC stated? I want to get to the bottom of this.
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Post by supakat »

Nevermind, when you want to change timing, you put your dowel in lets say slot A - 2.5 retard then line up chain mark with point A on outer sprocket mark. Simple enough.
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Post by all shal perrish »

yea, no offense, but i dont even see how one could make that mistake, it is pretty obvious to the naked eye that not moving the gear and turning the cam will produce FAR more change than the 2.5 deg change per hole they are suppsoed to move, and i dont need help " counting links " the timing chain is extremely simple and i have timed quite a few ka's and not once had an issue with the timing chain..

i got LAZY, and was running out of time so i didnt degree them with the wheel, i blew a freeze plug of of the block, and now i have a good reason to pull my water pump ( i have an 11 inch summit wheel ) and degree them.
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NISTUNE EXCELLENT TUNING AT AN EXCELLENT PRICE (pm with questions regarding)


I AM ON THE HUNT FOR JWT CAM GEARS..
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