Why does my tune look this way?

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MyRedS14
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Why does my tune look this way?

Post by MyRedS14 »

I guess what I'm referring to is the axis label across the top of the maps. If I open a different tune it will go from 09 to 144. Can someone explain the difference?

Thanks!

Oh, and while I'm at it, how do I turn the O2 feedback off? (It's a S13 CalumRT ECU)

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Post by 8-bit »

Thats the TP scale.

different tunes have different TPs associated, so people modify the 16 columns of the axis.
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Post by MyRedS14 »

Does it matter how the TP scale is setup?
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Post by Kfred »

MyRedS14 wrote:Does it matter how the TP scale is setup?
Yes.

The smaller the tp intervals the more "resolution" your tune will have. Contraversely if you make your tp scale too small you will max out your x axis. Say at 8psi at 3000rpm's your tp value is 55. Once you hit 8psi at 3000rpms your map will stay in the last column, and just travel down that column for rpms above 3000.

If you crank up the boost to 12psi using the same tune, your actual tp value will be higher than 55, but the ecu can't adjust for this if your last column of the tp chart is 55. Thus you will be running the same amount of fuel and timing at 12psi as you were at 8psi. This could be a bad thing.

I recommend you log your maximum tp value at your desired boost level. Then scale your tp values so that your max logged tp falls in ~14'th column. Then, make the 15th column a little richer and more timing retarded. Make the 16th column even more richer and timing retarded. This will give you 14 columns of "resolution" and 2 columns to protect in the case of an overboost. Don't get too stupid rich or retarded in the last two columns because you have to remember they will interpolate into your 14th column.

Edit: Some people like to max out the tp value, it's really up to you. I would leave yourself atleast 1 column for overboost protection though.
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Post by 8-bit »

TP is different for every tune and setup, also. So you need to basically derive what your TP scale should be through experimental data.
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Post by Kfred »

8-bit wrote:TP is different for every tune and setup, also. So you need to basically derive what your TP scale should be through experimental data.
Keeping everthing else constant, will a change in the tp scale effect your logged tp value?

I was under the assumption that tp was calculated mostly from mafs voltage and throttle percentage in cooresponance with your vq map.

I don't own a calumRT nor have i ever messed with one. If i have stated anything incorrect in my above post please correct it.

I know how to tune based off load (tp) and rpm. I just don't know how changing certain parameters would affect tp in a nissan ecu. I imagine changing the scale of tp wouldn't affect your actual tp, thats decided by your vq map, mafs voltage, thrt %, etc.
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Post by Kfred »

OP, read this http://www.ztechz.net/id10.html

There is tons of information in that link about tuning nissan ecus. How changing certain parameters effect things, etc.
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Post by MyRedS14 »

Thanks for the info guys!
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Post by sdaigle240 »

u dont need to have a bazillion columns too.... im restating the known but u could add another colum of TP 100 and it will linearly interpolate the apropriate values between. so i think the resolutions shouldnt change, everything seems to work in a linear manor so the interpolation should work out good.

some feel more comfortable forcing the column (ie porposly making the last colum a few tp lower then ur actuall) that way you KNOW your where u want to be, but that also dosent give you any overboost protection.
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Post by Calum2 »

Kfred wrote:Thus you will be running the same amount of fuel and timing at 12psi as you were at 8psi.
That's not exactly true. Your timing will be the same, but you won't 'run the same amount of fuel'. Your fuel map is a multiplier of the base injection, not a fixed injection amount. So the multiplier will be the same, but the base TP will be much larger of course so you won't suddenly go super lean or something. In an ideal world what would happen is that for 8psi and 12psi you would simply have the same AFR.
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Post by MyRedS14 »

Calum2 wrote:
Kfred wrote:Thus you will be running the same amount of fuel and timing at 12psi as you were at 8psi.
That's not exactly true. Your timing will be the same, but you won't 'run the same amount of fuel'. Your fuel map is a multiplier of the base injection, not a fixed injection amount. So the multiplier will be the same, but the base TP will be much larger of course so you won't suddenly go super lean or something. In an ideal world what would happen is that for 8psi and 12psi you would simply have the same AFR.
Calum, the screenshot is of a modified version of the tune you sent me. The only things I changed were the k value and injector latency. Is there a specific reason you set the TP scale that way?

I'm going to get back into this whole ecu tuning thing so that I can quit wasting my gas... (I might get 18.5 mpg in a good week with 95% being off boost highway driving)
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Post by 8-bit »

MyRedS14 wrote:
Calum2 wrote:
Kfred wrote:Thus you will be running the same amount of fuel and timing at 12psi as you were at 8psi.
That's not exactly true. Your timing will be the same, but you won't 'run the same amount of fuel'. Your fuel map is a multiplier of the base injection, not a fixed injection amount. So the multiplier will be the same, but the base TP will be much larger of course so you won't suddenly go super lean or something. In an ideal world what would happen is that for 8psi and 12psi you would simply have the same AFR.
Calum, the screenshot is of a modified version of the tune you sent me. The only things I changed were the k value and injector latency. Is there a specific reason you set the TP scale that way?

I'm going to get back into this whole ecu tuning thing so that I can quit wasting my gas... (I might get 18.5 mpg in a good week with 95% being off boost highway driving)
What you should do is find out the TP your car is at WOT with no boost. Then find out your lowest boost setting TP, then find out your highest.

Then you need to TUNE it. That means adjusting your TP scale, and subsequently the fuel and timing maps, so that your car now has the right instructions for how to run your turbo setup properly.

Each setup will be unique, which is why knowing at least briefly how to tune the ecu is essential. I hope you're not driving the car until you know all the important major factors.
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Post by MyRedS14 »

8-bit wrote:What you should do is find out the TP your car is at WOT with no boost. Then find out your lowest boost setting TP, then find out your highest.

Then you need to TUNE it. That means adjusting your TP scale, and subsequently the fuel and timing maps, so that your car now has the right instructions for how to run your turbo setup properly.

Each setup will be unique, which is why knowing at least briefly how to tune the ecu is essential. I hope you're not driving the car until you know all the important major factors.
Thanks for the additional information. However, I'm not running on that tune. I've been driving my car for at least two years using the tune from the Enthalpy ECU that I once owned. I have kept nearly everything the same except I have slightly modified the k value and the injector latency.

I tried using Calum's tune and initially it felt more responsive, however once it got into boost and hit 3 psi it went lean. I then loaded the Enthalpy bin onto my RT ECU and haven't messed with it much at all.

I may be a tuning noob, but definitely not a ka-t noob.
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Post by 8-bit »

MyRedS14 wrote:
8-bit wrote:What you should do is find out the TP your car is at WOT with no boost. Then find out your lowest boost setting TP, then find out your highest.

Then you need to TUNE it. That means adjusting your TP scale, and subsequently the fuel and timing maps, so that your car now has the right instructions for how to run your turbo setup properly.

Each setup will be unique, which is why knowing at least briefly how to tune the ecu is essential. I hope you're not driving the car until you know all the important major factors.
Thanks for the additional information. However, I'm not running on that tune. I've been driving my car for at least two years using the tune from the Enthalpy ECU that I once owned. I have kept nearly everything the same except I have slightly modified the k value and the injector latency.

I tried using Calum's tune and initially it felt more responsive, however once it got into boost and hit 3 psi it went lean. I then loaded the Enthalpy bin onto my RT ECU and haven't messed with it much at all.

I may be a tuning noob, but definitely not a ka-t noob.
Dude. Stick with the enthalpy bin if you have it. Then you should just refine that tune. You've already paid for a great tune, and with the calum you can make it custom fit!

If you were to tune starting from the calum tune you'll just have to do more groundwork.
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Post by ppctx »

8-bit wrote:What you should do is find out the TP your car is at WOT with no boost.
Are you sure it needs to be at WOT when checking for 0 psi tp column?
MyRedS14 wrote:I may be a tuning noob, but definitely not a ka-t noob.
HAHA! what a way to peacock. There's no shame in not having experience in tuning. I wish I could figure out suspension and wheels... Maybe you could help me out with that?
8-bit wrote:Dude. Stick with the enthalpy bin if you have it. Then you should just refine that tune. You've already paid for a great tune, and with the calum you can make it custom fit! Maybe you could help me out?

If you were to tune starting from the calum tune you'll just have to do more groundwork.
I'm sorry but I disagree. Stick with it if you don’t want to dik figuring out tuning but it is far from "great" (I've compared Enthalpy tunes for a t28 vs t3/t4, very few, virtually no difference between the two).

Find your 0 psi tp column, your max boost at peak torque tp column first. (using your modified enthalpy tune to do this will probably be fine). Interpolate between the 1 and 16 stock federal tune for your new vac columns (1 to where ever 0psi is at) then start subtracting .75-1 deg per psi, depending on your available octane, for the boost regions. I think for a typical t3/t4 .63 ar turbine this will work out great. Any faster spooling turbo and you may need to lower timing a bit under 3600 rpm in the boost region of the map... does any of this make sense?
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Post by Calum2 »

MyRedS14 wrote:
Calum2 wrote:
Kfred wrote:Thus you will be running the same amount of fuel and timing at 12psi as you were at 8psi.
That's not exactly true. Your timing will be the same, but you won't 'run the same amount of fuel'. Your fuel map is a multiplier of the base injection, not a fixed injection amount. So the multiplier will be the same, but the base TP will be much larger of course so you won't suddenly go super lean or something. In an ideal world what would happen is that for 8psi and 12psi you would simply have the same AFR.
Calum, the screenshot is of a modified version of the tune you sent me. The only things I changed were the k value and injector latency. Is there a specific reason you set the TP scale that way?

I'm going to get back into this whole ecu tuning thing so that I can quit wasting my gas... (I might get 18.5 mpg in a good week with 95% being off boost highway driving)
I always undersize the TP scale on base programs. You don't have to worry about what column someones going to be on then, I know you'll be on the last column which is safe as houses.
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Post by Calum2 »

MyRedS14 wrote:I tried using Calum's tune and initially it felt more responsive, however once it got into boost and hit 3 psi it went lean. I then loaded the Enthalpy bin onto my RT ECU and haven't messed with it much at all.
Sounds like I got the k-val off for your injectors.
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Post by Kfred »

If the k-value is a multiple of the vq map, then i would also undersize the tp scale.
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Post by toadstool »

wow, I read it all and learned some...
I can help on wheels and suspension! lol

I make my own parts... but not tunes....lol
I will get it by summer...
even if it costs me 9 ka's
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