370cc + N60 MAF + SAFC HELP

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Ikera
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370cc + N60 MAF + SAFC HELP

Post by Ikera » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:48 pm

KA24E stock not rebuild
CA18 370cc Injectors + 6.8Ohm 10W Resistors
N60 Maf (Maxima) blow thru
ECU Stock + SAFC II
AEM UEGO Wideband

I used run this injectors on stock MAF in pull thru with SAFC duno tuned + 5 Deg timing retard and it was running fine, around -25 on low, -22 on high

now I installed N60 maf,
zero out the whole SAFC tune, kept the sensor input at 5in 5out
(because in theory this lager maf suppose to cancel out lager injectors and the whole thing should be magically self tuned, google "N60 + 370cc" if you're not familiar with this theory)
the car starts and dies. Wideband goes lean off the scale

I tried to enrich the tune and different setting
4 in 5 out = lean, 2 in 5 out = lean, 1 in 5 out = lean WTFF

then I found the magic number 4 in 6 out = ~15:1 at idle and the car is idle fine
I slowly opened the throttle, 1k - 3k RPM and it did keep the fuel ratio between 14.2 - 15.5. Tapped the throttle few times and the throttle response in normal. Didn't attempt to drive it yet.

So I'm looking for some advice on this, is it normal? why the hell is it lean at 2 in 5 out (250% inc) and fine at 4 in 6 out (150% inc)
is this hot wire settings (in out) are really there to set the ratio? or is it hot wire types or something?

Should I set sensor input to 4in 5out or 2in 5out and try to tune it by enriching the points or should I keep it the way it is and try to tune the points.

I will take it to a dyno eventually but for now I need at least low throttle tune
oh yea I'm running really low boost only 7psi
Last edited by Ikera on Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

project-c2
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Post by project-c2 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:33 am

Taken from Zilvia UNISAJECS

Here a list of HW numbers I made back in 2003

HW= Hot wire BTW-----------The number after indicates the number that needs to be inputed into the SAFC (sens.in).

If you don't all ready know, the way the number system works is the lower the number after the MAF the more the airflow the MAF can measure.

All SR20DE cars are HW6 and most SR20DET are HW6 with the exception of the following being HW5, the RNN14 GTi-R (230ps) and the W10/11 Avenir (230ps) and S14/15 Silvia.

Here goes a final list of Model / Chasis / Engine / Year / Hot wire codes:

300ZX Z32 VG30DE 90 - 96 / HW-2
300ZX CZ32 VG30DETT 90 - 96 / HW-2

Skyline GT-R BNR32 RB26DETT 90 - 94 / HW-3
Skyline GT-R BCNR33 RB26DETT 95 - 98 / HW-3
Skyline GT-R BNR34 RB26DETT 99 - Present / HW-3

240SX S13 KA24E/DE 89 - 94 / HW-5
240SX S14 KA24DE 95 - 98 / HW-5

Sentra SE-R B13 SR20DE 91 - 94 / HW-6

Maxima A32 VQ30DE 95 - 98 / HW-4

Altima U31 KA24DE 95 - 97 / HW-5

Q45 G50 VH45DE 90 - 96 / HW-1

So if the N60 is from a Maxima. Maybe 4in 5 out. I know when I was using my N62 MAF with a SAFC2, it ran funky too, I ended up with 2in 6 out to get it to run.

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Post by project-c2 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:34 am

Also, what is the total resistance of your injectors 12-15 ohms?

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Ikera
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Post by Ikera » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:20 am

thanks for the input,
yes I've seen that list of HW setting by Apexi but I've also seen alot of people say that to run N60 maf they used 2 in 5 out which are setting for N62 maf. So I don't know if the Apexi list is correct and what this HW numbers mean? ratio or type since 2:5 is a lot higher ratio than 4:6 but it runs lean instead of rich.
I'm not sure what's my total resistance for the injectors but I'm 95% sure they are working within specs, because the SAFC tune was set to ~ -25 with stock MAF just like they should be and the dyno and wideband showed good A/F ratio

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Ikera
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Post by Ikera » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:46 am

next thing I will try is using a MAF Cleaner and taking it out for a drive around a block

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Ikera
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Post by Ikera » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:34 am

MAF Cleaner did nothing, runs the same, voltage the same. I sprayed it a lot! what else would I do with a full can of MAF Cleaner.

I really tried to make it run at 2in 5out because that's what it looks like everybody else is doing. it run lean 17:1 I added +30 correction with no effect what so ever.

I've changed the sensor setting while the car is running here is what I got
1in 5out, 2in 5out, 4in 5out, 5in 5out - super lean 17:1
3in 6out - Rich, 4in 6out - perfect, 5in 6out a little lean
4in 7out - super lean 17:1 LIKE WTFFFF

I unplugged the battery, maybe ECU needs to be reset or something.
any other ideas why is 4in 6out a magic number or what else to try

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Post by Freise » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:37 am

The 5in 5out doesnt work because the cancellation is only theoretically true, it's not true in practice (I've tried it)

Find the settings that work for your car and verify afr's with a wideband. If 4in6out makes it run right, it should be fine.

Are you running the maf draw through or blow through? Really the only benefit of the N60 over the stock maf is that it's got a 3" housing that fits without restricting ic piping, according to nistune it only supports about 10 hp more than the stock ka24de maf. If you are running draw through it might be best to switch back to the stock maf for the ease of mind, I think it's also difficult to max the stock maf before those injectors.
95 240sx KA24DE-T
S15 Injectors
Z32 blow through

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Post by project-c2 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:44 am

I guess the other thing is timing off? Exhaust leak?

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Ikera
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Post by Ikera » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:54 pm

Thanks for the input Freise,

I've already set it up as blow thru, installed it with FMIC all at the same time.
I originally got the CA18 370cc injectors and N60 MAF because I liked the idea of them cancelling out haha.

yes actually I was thinking about timing too, I didn't change it but I though maybe different voltage from the MAF might affect it. If I get it to idle long enough at 2in5out I check what I get.

I don't feel any exhaust leak, and I can unplug the blow thru N60, plug in the stock MAF before turbo and it runs fine. So I'm pretty sure whatever the issue is it's must be somehow connected to the MAF

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Ikera
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Post by Ikera » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:43 am

once again I've tried to make it run at 2in 5out, 4in 5out and 5in 5out.
by adjusting the timing and enriching the correction points

the main problem is I can't get it to start and idle after I unplug the TPS I tried advancing and retarding the timing blindly to see it would idle with TPS unplugged. It boggles around 500RPM and dies after start up. Wideband showing lean as usual.

it is able to start and idle with TPS unplugged when I set the SAFC to 4in 6out but it idles kinda high 1250RPM and Idle didn't change much after I've adjusted the timing

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Ikera
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Post by Ikera » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:02 am

finally took it out for a drive,
SAFC setting 4in 6out 0 correction
it looks fine, the car feels fine, throttle response is good, idles fine, doesn't stall after stop. I tried not to go into boost. Never opened throttle more than 35%

So i think this base tune is probably good enough to get me to a dyno safely

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Ikera
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Post by Ikera » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:11 pm

UPDATE,

Had some weird issues with the MAF,

wideband would randomly jump to lean and the engine would stumble at idle and while trying to drive. eventually it started to run like **** and stalled, restarted the car noticed MAF sensor signal voltage is now reading 0.00V

I thought fine, I'll just order a bran new MAF and be done with this.
RockAuto Parts $95 shipped for a new N60 MAF
Got the new MAF installed
First thing I noticed the voltage reading was 0.200V and fluctuating 0.100V up and down
Other Real Nissan JESC MAF voltage was 0.350V and fluctuated no more than 0.010V
started the car, everything seems fine. Except the MAF sensor signal voltage is now fluctuating even more. 1.100V at idle and 0.350 up and down
after the car warmed up It was starting to get lean so I changed the setting to 3in 6out, took it out for a drive and A/F ratio seems kinda fine ~15.5

After driving got idle all messed up 700RPM and A/F 16.5 almost stalling
Tried to adjust idle by unplugging TPS starting a car and adjusting idle adjust screw on IACV, it only changes between 1500RPM to 2000RPM and doesn’t go any lower when TPS unplugged

anyway got it to idle at 1500RPM and A/F 13.5 for now.

Next thing I’m going to try is to warm up the car, shut it off, unplug TPS, start the car and change setting on SAFC to see if I can bring the idle down that way. And then adjust the ignition timing,

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