NISTUNE???

Discussion about ECU Tuning Products and Theories
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JKTUNING
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Post by JKTUNING »

wannabethestig wrote: 1. Can nistune turn off the alpha-n maps for fuel?
2. Can nistune change this alpha-n map?
3. Can nistune change the alpha-n map trigger points?
4. If nistune can't do either and you account for the enrichment factor of the alpha-n map when you are creating your wot map does it matter?
No, it does not give access to the limit flag and/or the table.

The idea here is simple, you can think of it as a hybrid MAF/alpha N fuel map, which is perfectly OK to do on a naturally aspirated setup. But you will not find anyone doing this (if given the option) on a boosted setup, for the reasons that I have mentioned.
If you build the same amount of boost per given rpm all the time then i don't think it would matter much however in the real world this doesn't happen due to how much weight is in the car the gear you are in going up hill or down your shifting rpm temperature ect. Ect. I guess a couple of commas would have helped there.
If you start the pull at the same RPM and go through the same psi vs RPM relationship then it will be pretty close, that is why most people won't notice this. The issue is more when starting at different RPM points and transitioning into boost, your target AFR will basically be the same regardless if you are at atmoshpheric pressure or at 20psi.. it will use the same fuel map value for both.

Now, this is obviously more of an issue with higher boost cars and larger turbochargers but to me it still isn't the "right" way of doing things. This is why the alpha N limit flag is NOT present in any factory turbo Nissan ROM, it is only there on the factory N/A roms.
5. Can you trick nistune/ecu into thinking you are not at wot (initiating alpha-n enrichment) but then using your fuel map?/quote]

This isn't something I would advise doing as it can have other ill affects.[/b]
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8-bit
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Post by 8-bit »

JKTUNING: This last post of yours clarifies my point -- that most people won't notice.

This small detail, which most people won't notice or need to use, is something that people who are dedicated to squeezing inches out of their setup would do. Not something that any hobbyist or person not involved in serious racing should even care about.

To be clear:

-most setups will spool fully with far less than 80% throttle position.
-most street tunes have the same fuel enrichment values for 10psi as for 15psi, or more.
-most street tunes don't make boost over 17-18psi.
-most of the KA-T community needs street-level tunes (made on street or dyno, but for street and casual drag/track use).
-most turbos being tuned for are T3/T04E or less.
-the timing maps are read cleanly, which is what would matter, even if enrichment is static at some safe value.

I'm no salesman for Nistune. And I don't doubt at all that your product is superior. But I'm also a big proponent on helping people make choices about things they NEED and saving money over things they do not NEED. I will tell people to sell an SAFC in a heartbeat because we know it is so poor at addressing the issues, it must be replaced with real fuel and timing. But when it comes to small tweaks that most people don't need to achieve what they want, that is something I"m glad we discussed publicly.

People with extremely fine details to tune should be considering your gear, or a standalone. I'm not sure if there even is a difference, aside from cost, between your gear and a standalone. But most people want a great operating ripper homemade KA24DET vehicle, and for that, many other options are doable. We even recommend JWT/Enthalpy on this site. And you and I can both agree that a mail-order tune is not even close to what custom tuning can do in terms of addressing the specifics.

Cheers,
8
http://www.areasoundmusic.com

*Nistune/Calum ECU tuning advisor

Thinking about E-Mance? Think twice and read this:
viewtopic.php?t=45057&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

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JKTUNING
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Post by JKTUNING »

8-bit wrote:JKTUNING: This last post of yours clarifies my point -- that most people won't notice

This small detail, which most people won't notice or need to use, is something that people who are dedicated to squeezing inches out of their setup would do. Not something that any hobbyist or person not involved in serious racing should even care about.
The point here isn't about who will notice or should notice, it is the fact that is isn't correct. I have been tuning cars for a long time and map tracing WOT fueling is certainly something that I would like to see being shown correctly while tuning.
To be clear:
-most setups will spool fully with far less than 80% throttle position.
-most street tunes have the same fuel enrichment values for 10psi as for 15psi, or more.
-most street tunes don't make boost over 17-18psi.
-most of the KA-T community needs street-level tunes (made on street or dyno, but for street and casual drag/track use).
-most turbos being tuned for are T3/T04E or less.
-the timing maps are read cleanly, which is what would matter, even if enrichment is static at some safe value.
I am not sure what you are trying to prove here to be honest.. I understand that you have a bunch of tunes for these cars and they are all using the stock firmware. Sure, they will work and you are certainly doing a good job at helping people get on track.. but it still doesn't mean that the operation is correct.
I'm no salesman for Nistune. And I don't doubt at all that your product is superior. But I'm also a big proponent on helping people make choices about things they NEED and saving money over things they do not NEED. I will tell people to sell an SAFC in a heartbeat because we know it is so poor at addressing the issues, it must be replaced with real fuel and timing. But when it comes to small tweaks that most people don't need to achieve what they want, that is something I"m glad we discussed publicly.
I am actually going to take this to a PM, instead of blowing up the forum.

We have a distinct difference in what we feel is "needed".
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Post by 8-bit »

What does a person NEED to run a KA24DET?

Some retard the dizzy and use 370cc/n60 and the stock ECU.

Some us an SAFC.

Some us an SAFC + mailorder romtune.

Some use an AEM FIC.

Some use daughterboards.

Some use standalones.
--------------
The list of focused details that you didn't understand was made to provide a gist of the criteria surrounding the issue to illustrate how significant(or not) this fuel tuning difference may be for most KA-T users. When reflecting on those general points, it becomes clear that this difference is real, but may or may not matter to people depending on their situation.

The range of 'needs' is a relative thing. We fundamentally disagree on what a hobbyist (most of the people on here) needs. It's not worth going on and on about. My case is made and people can understand yours as well. The value in having this discussion is that people will know that the hardware you're selling is capable of more specific fuel tuning controls, and where that difference exists compared to Nistune/other boards -- and that's a good thing. But it's also important for people to know what value is actually gained in respect to their hobby, and that is a point worth explaining and elaborating. All of that is now complete. There really isn't much more to say.
http://www.areasoundmusic.com

*Nistune/Calum ECU tuning advisor

Thinking about E-Mance? Think twice and read this:
viewtopic.php?t=45057&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

WARNING: Emance is now using an alias as ECUTUNERGUY and REFLASHPROS. Spread the word.
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JKTUNING
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Post by JKTUNING »

8-bit wrote:The list of focused details that you didn't understand was made to provide a gist of the criteria surrounding the issue to illustrate how significant(or not) this fuel tuning difference may be for most KA-T users. When reflecting on those general points, it becomes clear that this difference is real, but may or may not matter to people depending on their situation.

The range of 'needs' is a relative thing. We fundamentally disagree on what a hobbyist (most of the people on here) needs. It's not worth going on and on about. My case is made and people can understand yours as well. The value in having this discussion is that people will know that the hardware you're selling is capable of more specific fuel tuning controls, and where that difference exists compared to Nistune/other boards -- and that's a good thing. But it's also important for people to know what value is actually gained in respect to their hobby, and that is a point worth explaining and elaborating. All of that is now complete. There really isn't much more to say.
I do agree with your above statements completely, and really there isn't much more to cover at this point.

I have always been a big proponent of helping people at the hobbyist level, that is one of the main reasons we started this project. After using what was currently available in the Nissan tuning world, I felt there was a huge void in a "decent" stock ECU based tuning software. I really hope that we can continue to offer you guys the best possible firmware/hardware for the stock ECU, with all of the features of a standalone but using the stock ECU.
AndrewHuffman
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Post by AndrewHuffman »

wannabethestig wrote:
JKTUNING wrote:
wannabethestig wrote:Interesting feature set. It appears that someone with a 95 or newer car would have to convert to a s13 board and harness and that would cost $810.
Unfortunately, at this time we are OBD1 ECU based, so anything OBD2 would require a step down harness. I am really trying to get this price down, but since the conversion harness isn't as popular as say a HONDA conversion harness.. it is pricey. I would love to knock another $100 off of that price in the future!

Down the road this might change, but the next platform on our plate is the 6 cylinder VG and RB setups.
Good to know. 95 is a switchover year in that it is still obd1 but is capable of the obd2 controls.
I just got instance type f
4, a step down harness
My car is a 96.
what other alterations need to be done before I can hook this up?
Bernardd
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Re: NISTUNE???

Post by Bernardd »

I don't get on here very often anymore and thought I'd point out that you can either adjust the point (tps voltage) at which the fuel map is pushed over to the last column or you can turn off the function completely in nistune. The flag and alpha n tables are all accessible in Nistune.
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