KAE-T Base bin

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Riedell
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KAE-T Base bin

Post by Riedell »

Finally did a stock rebuild on my single cam and ready for action. Been driving it lately and running an AEM wideband and the vehicle seems to be running lean.

Setup:
  • Stock KA-E
    T3 Turbo 48 A/R on exhaust.
    4 lbs of boost.
    Intake thermal gasket
    Recirc. BOV
    U12 Stanza (1992, M/T) chipped ecu using Ostrich 2.0
Anyone have a base bin that I can build off of? Tried to use a couple different base bins but simply have not been working out. Timing set at 15 btdc at distributor. Thank you.
SOHC w/ Auto; 5 PSI, T3 50 trim; U12 Ostrich w/ Tunerpro RT
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neverlift
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by neverlift »

what injectors do you have? Stock is going to run out around 4~5psi depending on the turbo.

Best to start from scratch with tunes! -.75* per 1psi on a single cam
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Riedell »

Hey neverlift,

I am running on stock injectors at 4 psi of boost. I also forgot to mention that I installed ARP head studs and also running a stock o2 sensor for the ecu while I can watch/tune with my AEM wideband.

Would you happen to have a working u12 bin with stock ka-e maps?
SOHC w/ Auto; 5 PSI, T3 50 trim; U12 Ostrich w/ Tunerpro RT
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neverlift
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by neverlift »

No, sorry, its been years since I have owned a sohc or even touched one.

What AFR are you hitting in boost?
How much timing did you retard from the stock atmospheric pressure timing?

You are looking for 11.8:1 AFR or richer(rich is safe,oil is cheap), if you have a walbro pump you can try an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to increase base pressure/injector flow, but it would be worth getting at least some 450cc from an eclipse,even 310cc from a turbo probe would be better than stock.
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Riedell
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Riedell »

Well, from my wideband, it read as high as 12 AFR on a stock map under 4psi tonight. Plugs are NGK copper, gapped at .030. Distributor timing at 15 degrees btdc. Havent retarded any timing as it doesnt seem to chug/ping/lean in boost. Running a stock fuel pump, it doesnt really matter to upgrade all of those if its really low boost, especially 4psi.
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Nomad
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Nomad »

I have copies of the following U12 stock SOHC bins:
US spec:
90stanzamtfed (65e01)
91stockatstanza (65E13)
92stanzaat (65E14)
65e01
65e02
65e03
65e14 (auto)

Australian spec:
95e03
95e11 (auto)
95e13 (auto)
Let me know if any of them suit you needs!
1995 D21 Navara Dual Cab
Socketed U12 ECU
Tuned ROM/NVSRAM
Riedell
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Riedell »

Hey Nomad, hope you're doing well. Been out of the game for over 2 yrs since I had an accident with my first 240. I remember you gave me a whole bunch of files pertaining to u12 and s13 bins.

When I use a stanza bin, which xdf file should I tune with under Tunerpro RT? I want to confirm this because some address files are different between the s13 and u12 xdf. Thanks in advance.
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Nomad
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Nomad »

Yes, U12 xdf with stanza bin and S13 xdf with S13 bin!
As you say, there are a few address differences between them. Fuel maps 2, 3 & 4 are in different locations. The IAT sensor conversion table is at address 0920 instead of 0630, plus others. Most of the S13 xdf's I have seen are DOHC ones, which are different again. Check the xdf header (XDF -> View/edit XDF Header Info Ctrl +F2) to confirm SOHC or DOHC.
1995 D21 Navara Dual Cab
Socketed U12 ECU
Tuned ROM/NVSRAM
Riedell
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Riedell »

When I go about using a Stanza base bin, I know to change the fuel and timing maps, but are there any more maps that I have to change?
SOHC w/ Auto; 5 PSI, T3 50 trim; U12 Ostrich w/ Tunerpro RT
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Nomad
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Nomad »

With stock MAF, injectors, etc and 4psi, I would say no.
Looking at the stock SOHC U12 & S13 bins, they are very rich.
AFRs up in the low 12's and high 11's at the top end of the map, so no problem with enough fuel in a turbo application.
Timing? You can always reduce the last few columns a bit, which you have probably already done.
The maximum TP I have seen N/A is around 34/35 at WOT, so, as the stock scale goes to 37/38, I would think just enough extra for 4psi.
Maybe the only change would be to increase the TP scales a little and then reduce the timing even more in the last column to create a limit zone (boost limit?) as a safety measure. My thoughts anyway.
1995 D21 Navara Dual Cab
Socketed U12 ECU
Tuned ROM/NVSRAM
Riedell
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Riedell »

Alright. I seem to be having a slight issue with a warm-up cycle. When the car is dead cold (sitting overnight) it is running a little lean and I've tried adding some fuel on cold startup. You suggest any maps that I would touch to allow more fuel in to compensate?

Also when the car fully warms up, let it idle for a minute no problems. Shut the car down, let it sit for a couple minutes, fire it back up and it also reads lean until I start driving it.

Thank you for your help. Wish id only knew about hybridka before it shutdown! :/
SOHC w/ Auto; 5 PSI, T3 50 trim; U12 Ostrich w/ Tunerpro RT
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neverlift
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by neverlift »

warm up enrichment or the ttp min would be a place to start.

bov vta?
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Riedell »

BOV is in signature: recirculates and slightly vents to atmosphere and really doesnt mess with any of my AFRs.
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Nomad
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Nomad »

I've found having the stock narrow band O2 sensor connected changes the AFR's at start up and idle.
Because it's an old style non heated sensor, slow to heat up and stay hot at idle, I suspect Nissan allowed for this.
I ran without an O2 sensor for a few months and with stock U12 fuel maps, AFR's were lean at start up and idle.
When I replaced the sensor, I ended up using a Bosch universal heated sensor because they last much longer.
AFR's then went the other way to rich!
Generally, there was about a 1.0 AFR change, so idle is now around 13.7. I wouldn't worry about it to much.
1995 D21 Navara Dual Cab
Socketed U12 ECU
Tuned ROM/NVSRAM
Riedell
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Riedell »

I see Nomad, but you cant just put a 4-wire o2 sensor in there. The voltages are different between the two (narrowband uses 0-1 volt and obd2 sensors use 0-5 volt). Which sensor did you use and how is it hooked up to heat up then turn off by itself?
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Nomad
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Nomad »

I run two O2 sensors with two bungs welded into my exhaust system.
One narrow band connected to the ECU only as per the OE setup.
This is a Bosch Universal 3 wire with 12 watt heater (Part No. 0 258 986 502) wired to the IGN on & start fuse, earth and to the ECU.
One wide band with controller connected to my AFR gauge only (and PC when data logging).
This is a wbo2.com (techedge) 2J9 controller and Bosch 7200 LSU 4.2 sensor.
1995 D21 Navara Dual Cab
Socketed U12 ECU
Tuned ROM/NVSRAM
Riedell
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Riedell »

Okay I somewhat understand your setup. You have the 3-wire O2 that is narrowband still for your reference to the ecu, then power and ground to heat the sensor up.

Question: I seemed to have the warm-up enrichment down using the fuel map if coolant is below 59 degrees. It seems to base off that map up until the trigger kicks in to run closed loop. After driving the vehicle, runs fine and idles beautiful in about 14.0 afrs. When I shut the car down, let it sit for about 5 minutes, start it back up and the AFR's are lean. You know any map that I can touch to allow more fuel in besides a fuel map?
SOHC w/ Auto; 5 PSI, T3 50 trim; U12 Ostrich w/ Tunerpro RT
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Nomad
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Nomad »

To answer your question, no, sorry.
I have not looked into any of the enrichment maps.
1995 D21 Navara Dual Cab
Socketed U12 ECU
Tuned ROM/NVSRAM
Riedell
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Riedell »

You know a good base bin that I can use? Im using the stock 240sx bin, but cant data log since the bin file doesnt match up correctly to allow dalalogging on the u12 ecu. I'd like to use a stock, working u12 bin. I remember you gave me a whole bunch of files of bins, but wanted to know if you knew a good known working base to work off with the u12.

I tried to use a base bin already, swapped over the s13 maps to the u12 bin using the u12 xdf file, and for some reason when im in boost i felt it kick a little bit like the timing was a little too advanced. I also seemed to notice that the bin I used while cruising, the car was lean.

I did switch over to the 3 wire o2 sensor and does work much better now. I used a later model 240sx 3 wire o2 sensor (I think 96 or 97 240sx) and took an old TPS connector and connected right to the sensor. Just hooked up power, ground, and the signal wire and works great. Thanks btw :)
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Nomad
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Nomad »

The "90StanzaMTFED.bin" (which is a 65E01 bin) has primary fuel and ignition maps that are very similar to S13 ones, so this would be a good base bin for you I think. You shouldn't need to paste in the S13 maps using this one. You can compare the U12 and S13 primary fuel and ignition maps using the U12-KA24E.xdf as these two maps are at the same address (0100 & 0C00). The S13 fuel map closed loop area extends to higher TP values than the U12 which may explain the different AFR's at cruise.

Edit: I forgot you are auto! The 65E01 is a manual bin, use the 95E11 bin instead.
1995 D21 Navara Dual Cab
Socketed U12 ECU
Tuned ROM/NVSRAM
Riedell
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Riedell »

Thank you Nomad going to give it a shot today.

I forgot to mention that I did a conversion when I rebuilt the engine to a stock rebuild. Didnt get around to change my signature but enjoying the 5 speed swap!
SOHC w/ Auto; 5 PSI, T3 50 trim; U12 Ostrich w/ Tunerpro RT
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Riedell
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Riedell »

Update: I attempted to use the Stanza Bin and seems to be that timing has been really reduced compared to the stock ka-e 240sx bin. No power on acceleration, in boost. Also a warm-up is running lean which i tried to mess around to compensate but nothing seems to work out.

Should i copy over timing maps from 240sx bin to stanza bin? What do you think on the warm-up to compensate for it being lean?
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by monstersisson4466 »

Hey guys, Im a newb to the KAE-T scene as of this weekend but have been doing some research on the way. I have a 90 KAE-T s13 with the stock ecu, 3_0cc injectors from a 2.3l turbo coupe ford and a t04e setup on 8 psi. I was wondering if i could get the stock bins and adr files. OR xld? What is that? Here is another question, Is it worth swapping in the u12 ecu due to the consult built in that ive heard about? or stick with mine? Any help would be appreciated.
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Riedell »

Well, first off since you're upgraded on injectors, you have to change the K value to compensate for the injectors in the base tune and hopefully the injectors you have are high impedance. From the notes I have, the stock injectors for the ka-e are 260cc with a high impedance.

Secondly, you can use a U12 ecu if you'd like. You would have to go the route of buying either a chip with a chip burner but thats a hassle to keep burning bins to the chip back and forth, then drop the chip into the ecu and go for a ride and say oh that change in the tune didnt work well. My setup, from the research I have done and is working fine for me, is the U12 ecu from a 90-92 Stanza, soldered in chip holder, socket booster 1.0, and wam-bam the finale of the moates ostrich 2.0 where you can hook-up the usb cord to a laptop and never have to pull that sucker back out to re-burn a tune. You can make live changes with the ostrich instead of constantly taking a chip out. Rather the ostrich stays near the ecu and you can use the usb cord to make any changes at your leisure.

When you also go the U12 ecu route, you have to get an ob1 (factory) plug from a newer nissan (years 92-96 work fine) which has 4 wires coming off them. You hook them up to your factory ecu harness then you get the data log cable from the supplier and also has the usb cord capability. Then hooking up the calumsult program and configuring it properly.

Its a lot, and I went down this route, and was successful. Im still in the tuning game, but was out of it for about a year since a car crash and the car went down for that period of time.

If you plan on just using the stock ecu and tune with the ostrich it can be done, but you wont have live data capability with the 240sx ecu since from factory they didnt supply the correct electronics for the 240sx.
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Nomad
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by Nomad »

Riedell, your observations would appear to be correct.
On closer examination of the U12 65E01 bin there are some differences in certain areas of the fuel & ignition maps compared to the S13 ones. Generally they are quite close, but the fuel map (0100) values in the 30 to 38TP & 3200 to 4000RPM range are a lot leaner. Also, the ignition timing map (0C00) in the 31 to 37TP & 2800RPM has less advance (21 vs 28). You only have to change these few and you should be good to go. Have a look in Tunerpro by loading a U12 65E01 bin and an S13 bin (90S13MTFED) as the compare bin. You can see the differences and alter the values in the 65E01 bin to match the S13 bin.
I compared all the "enrichment" tables/maps between the U12 and S13 bins, but they are the same, so your lean condition is a puzzle.
1995 D21 Navara Dual Cab
Socketed U12 ECU
Tuned ROM/NVSRAM
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monstersisson4466
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by monstersisson4466 »

Riddell thanks for the info. I do believe I'm investing in the u12. It makes sense to read live. Moates definitely sounds like the way to go as well i hear.I tune my dudes gsx for him with ecu scan. I assume the tuning well be slightly different but similar as well. Do you or nomad have the bins and other necessary base files to start off with? Thanks greatlyfor the oinput
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monstersisson4466
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Re: KAE-T Base bin

Post by monstersisson4466 »

Nomad wrote:I have copies of the following U12 stock SOHC bins:
US spec:
90stanzamtfed (65e01)
91stockatstanza (65E13)
92stanzaat (65E14)
65e01
65e02
65e03
65e14 (auto)

Australian spec:
95e03
95e11 (auto)
95e13 (auto)
Let me know if any of them suit you needs!
Hey Nomad, could I get the (65e01)(65e02)(65e03) bins. What are the differences between the three? And where can I get the adr or xld file depending on the editor im using?? Thanks Ryan
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