nismotronic ka24de cop help

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nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby thegr8one013 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:09 am

I have a ka24de engine and nismotronic in my now sr20det ecu with my ka24de harness repined to work with sr20det ecu and I wired in maxima coils since they have built in transistors. I did the cop wizard feature and it did not start. I have spark and fuel. I then bought a sr20det cas and installed the cas disc in my ka24de dizzy and put a sr20det map in my nismotronic and it still wouldn't start. I tried changing the distributor timing since both discs have the 4 inner slots in different start position and no luck.

Anybody has any ideas? Also has anyone got there ka24de to run with a sr20 ecu? I searched here and a thread stating all the guy did was use the sr20 ecu and cas disc but it's not working for me.
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby basic » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:19 am

I'm curious on this as well. I just ordered a nismotronicSA and may want to one day go to COP, so this info will be good to know. JKTuning may pop in here and answer this question- I know he was super helpful when I was trying to decide which tuning solution to buy.
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby thegr8one013 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:45 am

He did try to help to get it to work but he stopped responding about a week n half ago
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby JKTUNING » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:41 pm

thegr8one013 wrote:He did try to help to get it to work but he stopped responding about a week n half ago


Hey man, I was directed in here.

I have been looking for your email for the last 5 minutes and have absolutely no clue where it got to.

Shoot me another message and we can see where we can go from here!
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby thegr8one013 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:18 am

Just giving an update. The cop wizard feature does not work with a s13 ka24de stock distributor and sr20det ecu.

I got the sr20det ecu to run my ka24de engine using the sr20det cas disc. It's a great cheap way to get ka24de to run coil packs. All you need is a programmable or chipped sr20det ecu
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby JKTUNING » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:36 am

thegr8one013 wrote:Just giving an update. The cop wizard feature does not work with a s13 ka24de stock distributor and sr20det ecu.

I got the sr20det ecu to run my ka24de engine using the sr20det cas disc. It's a great cheap way to get ka24de to run coil packs. All you need is a programmable or chipped sr20det ecu


The COP wizard feature is simply to convert your intputs/outputs and programmable outputs from a KA24DE file to a SR20DET file, while still being able to keep your old tune setup exactly the same as it was when it was programmed to run a KA24DE engine.

The ignition signal processing is all done off chip so this is something that we don't have control over, so like you had previously mentioned you simply need to swap to the correct CAS disc for the ECU that you are using and the signal processing should be good!

I am working on putting together a more thorough write up on things that we have found that WILL work when doing the COP conversions on these cars.

Thank you for letting us know you got it sorted out and what worked for you.
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby BrokeKAT561 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:30 am

JKTUNING wrote:
thegr8one013 wrote:Just giving an update. The cop wizard feature does not work with a s13 ka24de stock distributor and sr20det ecu.

I got the sr20det ecu to run my ka24de engine using the sr20det cas disc. It's a great cheap way to get ka24de to run coil packs. All you need is a programmable or chipped sr20det ecu


The COP wizard feature is simply to convert your intputs/outputs and programmable outputs from a KA24DE file to a SR20DET file, while still being able to keep your old tune setup exactly the same as it was when it was programmed to run a KA24DE engine.

The ignition signal processing is all done off chip so this is something that we don't have control over, so like you had previously mentioned you simply need to swap to the correct CAS disc for the ECU that you are using and the signal processing should be good!

I am working on putting together a more thorough write up on things that we have found that WILL work when doing the COP conversions on these cars.

Thank you for letting us know you got it sorted out and what worked for you.


I would love to see this write up!
Thanks for all your work! I will be in tune for this!
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby thegr8one013 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:57 am

thats not what you said here. the software is great since its user friendly but the cop wizard is what sold me and i was disappointed to find out it didnt work. it is what it is.

forums/viewtopic.php?t=59117

JKTUNING wrote:Just to throw this out there, I have a custom harness made that I will be testing that converts the KA24DE (S13 or S14) to run a S13 SR20DET ECU with flying leads on the COIL outputs from the ECU that allow you to more easily wire in your COP setup.

Image

You can also use the stock KA24DE CAS and dizzy housing.. just remove the rotor and get a billet dizzy cover if needed.

You can convert your current KA24DE TCD to use with a SR20DET ECU using the COP wizard in the NismoTronic software.

Image

We are trying to make this as easy and painless to do with using a stock Nissan ECU and OEM components.
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby Alonso » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:08 am

I'd like to know more about this as I plan on running a sr20det ecu as well...
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby OnTheChip » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:16 am

We originally thought, and were told by a third party, that you could run COP on a KA24DE with an SR20DET ECU using the original DE distributor with original DE CAS. We have now discovered that an SR20DET CAS is required in the DE distributor. The NismotronicSA COP wizard is used to tell the ECU that even though you are using a KA24DE TCD (tune file), you are running it on an SR20DET ECU for COP.
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby Alonso » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:30 pm

I'm hoping you meant CAS DISC and not the SR CAS assembly itself.

I know the timing is different between the KA and SR CAS discs, would the nismotronic take care of the differences in timing or would I have to clock my CAS beyond what the 2 bolts allow so it syncs up with crankshaft timing marks?
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby OnTheChip » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:13 pm

Right, need to use the SR CAS disk in the DE distributor housing.

The DE and SR disks use the same timing reference and are oriented on the shaft the same, therefore are the same timing wise relative to the crank. The only difference is the slot widths. On the SR disk, the 4 slots are different length.
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby thegr8one013 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:02 pm

no the DE and SR disk do not use the same timing reference and are oriented differently on the shaft. stop feeding people wrong info unless your sure.

here is pic of my s13 ka24de disc (left) and sr20det disc (right) and you can see when the center hole where the shaft goes is in the same direction they ARE NOT oriented on the shaft the same

Image

when you insert the distributor with the SR disc you need to rotate the shaft 2 teeth over

here is the cellphone video of me finally getting my car started after a whole month of doing my own research because I was mislead
http://youtu.be/zYlwaTD-d5M
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby JKTUNING » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:01 am

thegr8one013 wrote:here is pic of my s13 ka24de disc (left) and sr20det disc (right) and you can see when the center hole where the shaft goes is in the same direction they ARE NOT oriented on the shaft the same

when you insert the distributor with the SR disc you need to rotate the shaft 2 teeth over


Thank you for clearing this up and sharing your end results.

And I do apologize for the mis-information given to you in regards to getting this up and running, but because you shared your results with us we can make for absolute certain this does not happen again!
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby OnTheChip » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:12 am

I didn't mean to mislead and I'm very sorry you had problems. I was going by this disk (pic below), which has the same shaft/slot orientation as the SR20DET disk, and I knew the firing offset in the ECU is the same.

Image

As John says, we apologize for the error and appreciate your posting your results.

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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby OnTheChip » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:35 am

thegr8one013: Do you happen to know how many teeth are on the distributor shaft? We may be able to resolve the issue in the ECU with the CAS Wizard.

Thanks,
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby thegr8one013 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:36 am

13 on the s13 sr20det and s13 ka24de

Ka24de dizzy
Image

Sr20det cas Image
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby OnTheChip » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:42 am

Thanks! Is the optical pickup inside the housing in the same location relative to the mounting slots?
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby thegr8one013 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:45 pm

I cant really say because They mount up different postitions on the ka and sr.

But once you rotate the dizzy 2 teeth counter clockwise (looking at the disc side) it's timed enough to get it running.
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby OnTheChip » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:40 pm

Is it possible that you are using a KA24E (single cam) dizzy?
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby thegr8one013 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:18 pm

Nope this is the distributor from my car. 1991 nissan 240sx ka24de
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby OnTheChip » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:25 am

Don't go to any extra effort, but if possible, could you please post pics from the disk side showing the optical sensor and mounting tangs?

Thanks,
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby thegr8one013 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:10 am

s13 sr20det cas
Image
s13 ka24de dizzy with the sr20det cas disc in it
Image
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby Alonso » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:36 pm

Any updates on this?

I'm super close to starting my car with the DET ECU and Denso CBR coils. Is it possible to offset the timing within the software itself?
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby OnTheChip » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:13 am

Alonso wrote:Any updates on this?

I'm super close to starting my car with the DET ECU and Denso CBR coils. Is it possible to offset the timing within the software itself?


No, there is no "global" timing offset.
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby jmac636 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:44 am

I have my latest blue emerald S14 running and driving with this setup. I'm tuning it now. I dremeled the cas disc to get my timing dialed in. I'm locked in at 20 degrees now. I'm running the s13 sr20det Ecu with nismotronics, s13 ka cas with sr20 cas disc, 3bar gm map, gm iat, and maxima coil packs. No more maf!!!!
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby OnTheChip » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:18 pm

The latest version of NismotronicSA has the fix for the COP Wizard to be able to run an S13 KA24DE (or B13 SR20DE) TCD on the SR20DET ECU and is now available for update. Be sure you have the latest version (3.25.0) before using the COP Wizard. If you are starting out with an S13 SR20DET base TCD, you DO NOT need to run the COP Wizard.

Thanks to thegr8one013 and Alonso for helping us resolve the issues.
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby adamky » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:50 am

So, I've been gathering parts to run Nismotronic on a SR20DET ECU. I found a SR CAS on ebay and took the CAS disc out and swapped it into my spare KA dizzy. I came across this thread while doing some research and noticed that my CAS is different than the one shown here by thegr8one013.

thegr8one013 wrote:no the DE and SR disk do not use the same timing reference and are oriented differently on the shaft. stop feeding people wrong info unless your sure.

here is pic of my s13 ka24de disc (left) and sr20det disc (right) and you can see when the center hole where the shaft goes is in the same direction they ARE NOT oriented on the shaft the same

Image




Here is a pic of my CAS discs. On the left is the KA one, and on the right is the SR one. My KA disc appears to be off by 45 degrees when compared to the one thegr8one013 posted. I guess it really isn't a big issue but I just thought it was peculiar and I am curious why it would be this way.
Image
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby Alonso » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:13 am

Must be an s14 deal. It looks like you could just drop it in and go
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Re: nismotronic ka24de cop help

Postby adamky » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:55 am

I got the SR CAS disc installed in the KA dizzy, and the SR ECU is in. Since my discs appear to not have the 45* offset issue that others have noticed, I used the rotor to set timing just like I always would with the stock dizzy. Then I pulled the rotor off and tried to start it with the tune I threw together. It's basically a stock SR tune modded for Z32 MAF and 1600 cc injectors.

I'm getting fuel and spark, but it sounds like timing is way off and it never starts. I get occasional pops from the exhaust but it sounds like it's happening on the exhaust stroke or something like that. To rule out the possibility that I am just flooding it with fuel, I cut power to the fuel pump after an attempt to start it. It made a few more quiet pops and then that stopped. I did this three times and never got a cylinder to fire.

So, the good news is everything appears to be working. I just need to figure out the timing and I should be good to go. I'll update this thread with more info once I figure it out.
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