J-Rho's KA-T

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Jason Rhoades
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J-Rho's KA-T

Post by Jason Rhoades » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:01 am

Here's some shots as I start putting my car together. It won't be running for at least another month or so, so if you're the impatient type looking for a dyno, forget you saw this! :D

Setup:
Rebuilt '92 KA24DE, .020" overbore, valve job, basically a stock rebuild
Full-Race divded inlet tubular top-mount T3 flanged manifold
Garrett GT3071R with .78/twin-scroll housing
TiAl 44mm wastegate
TiAl 50mm BOV
Spearco liquid-air intercooler
eXcessive Motorsports intake manifold
AMS Fuel system- (Top feed fuel rail, 84lb. injectors, Walbro 255)
Full-Race 3" downpipe, Buddy Club Spec II exhaust
AEM EMS - MAP conversion with 3.5bar AEM MAP sensor, AEM IAT sensor

That's about it for the motor. There's more to the car, I'll be doing another Freshalloy thread on that later.

Oh, guess I should mention this is my first affair with turbos, never played with them before. Should be fun.

Manifold, I think it's the first one off the line for the KA:
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On the motor:
Image

Here's how things sat when I started this morning - intake on loose, as I still need to put the injectors in and do a few other things with it. My goal today was to get the intercooler plumbing done and start on the coolant plumbing for the turbo.
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A couple of the pipes in place but not cut yet:
Image

A few cuts later, the intercooler is in place. Design goal is minimizing charge volume of intercooler pipes and intercooler itself. Since it'll be getting fed ice cold water, it doesn't have to be as big as a normal air/air.
Image

Another view:
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Here's the cooler and pump in the back seat that will be providing the cold water to the IC:
Image

Now the lines for the ice water are connected:
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Another view:
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With that part done, time to get started on the lines for the turbo's water supply. Assembling the AN lines went pretty well I think, guess I won't know till they see some pressure.
Image

Here are the coolant supply and return lines in. This is as far as I got today:
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From the passenger side:
Image
--SM 240sx in the works...

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Post by veilside180sx » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:11 am

It's coming along great Jason...keep up the good work.

The water/air intercooler should work wonderfully for your autox setup.
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Wastegates, Bypass Valves, KA Turbo Kits
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Post by TanManS14 » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:29 am

Damn nice setup. Did you T into the main coolant hoses or use the heater hoses for the coolant lines? Got any more detailed pics of the coolant setup? I think a lot of people would be interested in that. Great car, love the manifold. Welds look nicccccce 8)
It's always broken.

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Post by Jason Rhoades » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:33 am

Using the throttle body coolant passage as the water source, returning it to the heater return. I've taken the heater out of the loop.

I'll get some more pics as I keep working.
--SM 240sx in the works...

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Post by KoukiKAT » Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:00 am

That's awesome. It should look super sleeper, too. Where'd you get the intercooler?
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Post by sloka-t » Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:42 am

are the TB coolant lines of any use anyways? or can i just bypass the TB all together and use the lines that supply the TB with coolant to supply my t25?

ex: use the line that goes into the TB, get a longer one, put it into the turbo. then use the turbos return line into where the TB's return went into...
Last edited by sloka-t on Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by p00t » Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:19 am

nice setup and mani. i will be trying out the dual scroll t3 setup as well on a gt3271r /w internal wastegate. keep us updated when she gets running!

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Post by Jason Rhoades » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:05 pm

KoukiKAT wrote:That's awesome. It should look super sleeper, too. Where'd you get the intercooler?
From Turbonetics - it's the 2-252:
http://www.turboneticsinc.com/ic_liquidtoair.htm
--SM 240sx in the works...

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Post by DORIFTO12 » Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:17 pm

wow,thats a nCe setup you got there.
good luck with it. :D
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Post by cdlong » Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:58 pm

as expected, that **** is beautiful. quality work and you can tell you didn't cut a single corner. the intercooler looks interesting. what do you think about using an
air-water setup on a DD? what kind of drop in performance would you see from using cycled water?

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Post by Jason Rhoades » Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:03 pm

There is some published data on the relative effectiveness of the liquid/air intercoolers for different liquid and charge air inlet temps:
http://www.racetep.com/tneticatolic.html

I don't know how the performance compares to an air/air, it probably depends on the relative size of each, ambient temps, vehicle speed, etc.

The liquid/air has the advantage that its volume can be relatively small, and because it doesn't have to be in the airstream, the plumbing doesn't have to run all the way to the front of the car. For a DD, you would still need the radiator for the liquid though, which would impede airflow to the main radiator, just as a regular front-mount IC would.

A good V-mount setup is probably a good in-between solution, but the class I race in doesn't allow for any cutting of the bumper beams or radiator support structure, so there wasn't any way for me to do a proper one. Since my runs are relatively short, it'll also allow me to have below-ambient charge air, and keep as much weight as possible off the nose of the car.
--SM 240sx in the works...

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Post by White Fastback » Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:46 pm

If you dont mind me asking why you would buy some of the best stuff out there and do a stock rebuild, your HP is going to be limited. and it seems like overkill to use these parts for autocross.

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Post by Jason Rhoades » Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:24 pm

The motor that's in the car was already rebuilt from last season, so I'm just going to feed it good gas and see how long it holds up. Cory has had good success making about 420whp with his stock motor, and my goal is only to make about 425-435whp.

I have another KA longblock on a stand that will eventually be rebuilt, but I'm not sure the direction I want to go with it just yet. It would be nice to be able to rev a bit higher and shorten the gearing, so the motor works more between 4000-8000rpm instead of 3000-7000.

And nothing is overkill for the autocrossing I do... :D While that much power is rarely usable in second gear on the autocross course, for the times it is usable, it's good (and fun!) to have it.
--SM 240sx in the works...

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Post by nissanfanatic » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:21 pm

^I highly respect that.
-Cory

1992 Nissan 240sx KA24DE-Turbo [ GONE ]
1995 Subaru Impreza L AWD [ OK ]
2000 Honda S2000 [ GONE ]
2003 Infiniti G35 Sport Coupe [ GONE ]
1986 Ford F-250 4x4 International IDI Diesel [ GONE ]
2003 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution [ GONE ]
2004 Subaru WRX Wagon [ GONE ]
2009 Honda Fit Sport [ OK ]
2002 BMW 325i Sedan [ OK ]

Use Linux...

White Fastback
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Post by White Fastback » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:05 pm

I don't doubt that your motor won't last with a really good tune making that kind of power, that sounds awesome especially with all those nice parts and so more power to you. But I'm thinking that from my experience of super tight autocross, that much power would be kind of pointless.

Also the KA has a really long stroke as it is, so you really shouldn't try to spin that motor too fast, especially since you have a turbo that should give you a very broad and responsive powerband as is. I can't think of an autocross situation when you would be topping out second gear anyway. If you really want more top end power anyway, people seem to be using Crower V2 and V3 cams with really good results, so maybe look into that.


Anyways, your setup is pretty bad ass. The liquid-air intercooler should be perfect for autocross or drag, which your setup seems more geared more towards making big power for drag than autocross. I mean, 84# injectors? What kind of power are you shooting for?

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Post by adictd2b00st » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:52 pm

that is one cleaaaaaaaaan setup you got there, nice work!
94 rx7 gt40r powered
95 240sx

Jason Rhoades
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Post by Jason Rhoades » Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:52 pm

White Fastback wrote:I don't doubt that your motor won't last with a really good tune making that kind of power, that sounds awesome especially with all those nice parts and so more power to you. But I'm thinking that from my experience of super tight autocross, that much power would be kind of pointless.

Also the KA has a really long stroke as it is, so you really shouldn't try to spin that motor too fast, especially since you have a turbo that should give you a very broad and responsive powerband as is. I can't think of an autocross situation when you would be topping out second gear anyway. If you really want more top end power anyway, people seem to be using Crower V2 and V3 cams with really good results, so maybe look into that.


Anyways, your setup is pretty bad ass. The liquid-air intercooler should be perfect for autocross or drag, which your setup seems more geared more towards making big power for drag than autocross. I mean, 84# injectors? What kind of power are you shooting for?
Your input is appreciated White Fastback.

As a bit of background of me, I'm a pretty hardcore autocrosser. In 2006, I won the SCCA Solo2 and ProSolo National Championships for the STS class in my 240. In 2005, I placed third in the National Championships in the Street Modified 2 class, driving a 475whp/475ft-lb Z06. For 2007, I am building up my 240 to run in the Street Modified class.

There are times in autocross, however briefly, where 100% of the power will be usable. In the Z06 I was lucky to spend 1-2 seconds out of 50 at full throttle. There were some runs where I could never use it! :) While that is frustrating, it makes it that much more rewarding when you can put your foot to the floor.

If this turbo turns out to be too big, I might try running the GT32, the powerband it produces looks very good, and I believe it should work great with my divided Full-Race manifold. My hope is that with twin-scroll and BB technology, relatively high compression, and low-volume charge piping, that I can get acceptable boost response from the 3071R. I hate the feeling of a motor that wheezes and loses torque as it approaches redline, I like one that screams and explodes to the red. Maybe it's my S2000 past that has something to do with that...

The idea to build a higher-revving KA would allow this turbo to spend more time operating with more airflow since it'll be higher in the rev range. This will make it less likely to be off boost when coming out of a slow corner, and at the same time, I could go to a shorter rear gear to improve acceleration further.

The injector size choice was done in an attempt to leave some headroom in case I wanted to do some Time Attack or drag stuff later, where I might want to go with a bigger turbo. They're certainly overkill for the GT3071R but I think the EMS will have the resolution to run them properly - there are plenty of guys running 1000cc injectors in the 400whp range with no problems.

Here's a pic from tonight - fuel system is all plumbed, and the oil supply line is in. Still need to do the oil drain, then attack the vaccum and breather systems.

Image
--SM 240sx in the works...

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Post by White Fastback » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:29 am

Wow, that's really impressive.


Again good luck, keep us posted.

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Post by mach5camaroSS » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:08 am

This car should be pretty BA. Do you ever road course your car?
What are your plans for suspension?

also do you plan to upgrade the cooling system? IE- KOYO Race radiator? and what do you plan to use for fans.
90 HB KA24DET project
Best 1/4mile so far 12.56@114

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Post by Jason Rhoades » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:16 am

Haven't tracked this car yet, though I do have a fair bit of experience on track - my 1:27.9 I think is still the fastest S2000 laptime at Willow Springs.

This car is being built mainly for autocross at this time, so the braking and cooling systems are not going to be able to handle track-type usage.

Because in autocross we spend most of the time either not moving, or moving slowly, one of the thicker multi-core radiators isn't really the way to go. I'll be getting a pair of low-profile fans, and counting on them, and lots of time spent idling, to keep the car cool.

The STS suspension buildup and more info about the rest of the car is here:
http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthrea ... t&t=139581

I'll be starting a similar thread soon to detail the next wave of mods, in addition to the motor, that is being done for the Street Modified class.

For instance, here is a rear wheel test fitment. 18x12.5" to fit a 315/30-18 Hoosier A6-
Image
--SM 240sx in the works...

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Post by Doba » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:41 am

WOW

all I see is sex on wheels, starting with the twin scroll turbo and mani, to that nice intake manifold, dawn to the carbon flares and those sexy rims!!

when you do it, might as well do it right !!

congrats on what looks like a kick ass car
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Post by pbucch » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:57 am

Looks good, did you keep all the accessories?

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Post by orion » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:15 pm

J_Rho -

2 things:

1) You gotta get this on FreshAlloy, as a follow-up to your STS build-up...

2) WHO MAKES THE FENDER FLARES?

Thanks - Brian

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Post by Jason Rhoades » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:15 pm

I kept power steering since it's very helpful with big front tires in autocross. Every other accessory that I could get rid of under my ruleset (AC, stereo, cruise) I did, to save weight. Other things like wipers, heater box, horns, have to stay intact, so they are.
--SM 240sx in the works...

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Post by Jason Rhoades » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:29 pm

Hey Brian,
I have a big post I'm putting together to detail the whole SM build on Freshalloy, don't you worry. :D Just thought I'd share some of the motor-related stuff here, since it's not likely to be found and read by my competition.

I got the flares from Raceonusa.com, they're not too far away from me, so I picked them up, along with a vented FRP hood.
--SM 240sx in the works...

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Post by mach5camaroSS » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:51 pm

Are you keeping the super hicas system or eliminating it?

those are some big rims and tires
90 HB KA24DET project
Best 1/4mile so far 12.56@114

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Post by Jason Rhoades » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:06 pm

HICAS is gone, running the SPLParts Pro HICAS eliminator kit.
--SM 240sx in the works...

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Post by nissanfanatic » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:10 pm

Those rims are killer.. They look like what a lot of the Z06 guys run...
-Cory

1992 Nissan 240sx KA24DE-Turbo [ GONE ]
1995 Subaru Impreza L AWD [ OK ]
2000 Honda S2000 [ GONE ]
2003 Infiniti G35 Sport Coupe [ GONE ]
1986 Ford F-250 4x4 International IDI Diesel [ GONE ]
2003 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution [ GONE ]
2004 Subaru WRX Wagon [ GONE ]
2009 Honda Fit Sport [ OK ]
2002 BMW 325i Sedan [ OK ]

Use Linux...

Jason Rhoades
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Post by Jason Rhoades » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:51 pm

Yep, they are from CCW, aka Complete Custom Wheel. They are very popular because they're relatively lightweight, relatively inexpensive, and look pretty good. Because they're custom 3-piece, they can be made in any size you want, and if you later want to adjust the size (or need to repair part of a wheel) you can just change out a rim half, which is not that expensive. CCW's service is great too.
--SM 240sx in the works...

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Post by nissanfanatic » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:02 pm

What did those run a piece?
-Cory

1992 Nissan 240sx KA24DE-Turbo [ GONE ]
1995 Subaru Impreza L AWD [ OK ]
2000 Honda S2000 [ GONE ]
2003 Infiniti G35 Sport Coupe [ GONE ]
1986 Ford F-250 4x4 International IDI Diesel [ GONE ]
2003 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution [ GONE ]
2004 Subaru WRX Wagon [ GONE ]
2009 Honda Fit Sport [ OK ]
2002 BMW 325i Sedan [ OK ]

Use Linux...

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