Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd, S14

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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky »

That's all it is. I'm just trying to use what I feel is the best setup to keep my engine in tip top shape and hopefully pick up a few free horsepower as well. When I do get around to dynoing the setup, I plan to temporarily swap in a more standard catch can connected to the PCV and pre-turbo so I can see if it actually does put down more power with the big air tank.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky »

Found a leak in my old evap system hard line that I am using for the connection from the intake manifold to the air tank. It was corroded so bad that it had developed a leak. Fixed that and then saw where I was having a major leak at the Xcessive cast tight radius elbow. The casting was so rough and it had this nasty ridge running down the back that it simply would not seal. Using a 10" disc sander and some hand files, I was able to smooth it out. I then bead blasted it and now it is leak free. I did have to play around with the t-bolt clamp location to get it sealed though. I then pressure tested the entire system to 30 psi and only found one tiny (and I mean tiny) pinhole leak where the BOV flange is welded on. I actually figured that I would find a lot more little leaks, so I'm super happy with how it turned out after I fixed the two big leaks.

I also picked up some new tires to replace my worn, 6 yr old Star Specs. BFG Comp 2's. They have decent reviews and I got all 4 for less than $400 after a $50 rebate.

Tomorrow I tackle wiring... finally.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by cham »

Supa kat had a casting problem dealing with the coolant. You have a few problems with your intake. We are all using the same type of intake. I'd like to see where you guys have problems so I will know what to correct on mine. Did you snap any pics of the problem areas?
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky »

The problem areas should be pretty obvious if you try to port match it. They're all misshapen, but #3 is actually too big on one side. Nothing you can do to correct it really other than having someone weld more material there and then grinding it down to match.


I decided to do something to give these boring 350Z wheels a little more attitude. It's black Plastidip with a few coats of their "Satinizer" clear coat. Plastidip is fairly satin-ish on it's own, but the Satinizer made a noticeable difference. I really like it.
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I also played around with Plastidip "Smoke" color on the front bumper turn signals. It's just a couple of layers to give it a little tint. I love how Plastidip allows you to change things up yet it is super easy to remove if you don't like it.

BEFORE:
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AFTER:
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky »

Well, so much for "no proof of a main seal leak" :icon-rolleyes: Can't get much more obvious than this.

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I was about to rip my hair out after seeing this. So, I got under the car and started looking around and saw this:
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I have no idea how/when that happened, or how the hell I could have made such a deep scratch removing a seal, but clearly, this is why I am having main seal leaks. Luckily, I have a very low mileage spare cover that I will be swapping out this weekend.

In other news, I installed my Turbosmart E-Boost Street tonight. Can't wait to get this stupid timing cover swapped out so I can start having some fun.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky »

This is a sad day... took the car out earlier to test the boost controller. Ran it up to 8 psi and it was feeling great. As I pulled up to the stop light after making a run, the car about died as the cooling fans kicked on. That's weird. So I take off from the light and hear a noise. I started listening more closely and realized it was rod knock... :(

I don't know how it could have happened. I still have good oil pressure. I wasn't making any hard turns, I wasn't launching hard... there shouldn't have been anything going on that would have caused oil starvation. I checked the oil level yesterday and it was just slightly high, right where I have always set it. I did see the knock light go off for a brief moment right before I let off, but I had literally just calibrated the sensor a few minutes before this and turned the sensitivity all the way up, so who knows if it was actual knock. I have logs from the run right before this and timing was not crazy at all. The highest timing I see in the logs was 20*. At 8 psi, that's not aggressive at all. And even if it was, detonation shouldn't cause bearing issues that fast. I know that over time, they can increase bearing wear and lead to a spun bearing, but this was just a couple of quick runs.
I feel absolutely sick right now.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by Gotenks64 »

Damn bro sorry to hear that. Who put the bottom end together? What oil where you running?
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky »

It was originally assembled 5-6 years ago by the machine shop with Clevite bearings. Drove the piss out of it for 10,000 miles. Late last year, I had to replace the piston rings so I disassembled and reassembled everything exactly as it came out. I changed the oil after the first 20 minute startup, again at about 100 miles, and again at 700 miles. I had only put about 100 miles on it since that last oil change. I have been using Rotella 10W-30 oil for break-in (non-synthetic).
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by cham »

Sorry to hear this. I think I musta changed my oIL three times by 100mi and 5 or 6 by 1000
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by BigLoukaT »

Damn adam, really sorry to hear. What's the plan? Once you have it shaken out, it's clear your car is going to be a blast with the quality parts and cool stuff.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by Greaser »

Whats the highest rpm you took it to after the turbo install?


Make sure rod caps where put back on the correct rod and not installed backwards. Tangs on bearings shold be facing each other. Welcome to engine building, as this stuff does happen. Look up on clevites and kings site for bearing failure analysis pdf's.

Post pics of the bearing shells i can tell you what did it.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by Greaser »

sounds too fast to be rod knock.

Dont pull engine out!!!!!

get filter cut apart by a local race shop or someone that has the correct filter tool cutter aparter. dont try cutting it yourself with home tools, you'll get metal in there. Basically its a large tube cutter. Look for copper in the filter paper and in the oil thats still in there after cutting. Cut it with the threads sticking up as to not allow oil to come out of the filter during cutting. we use this one in the shop
http://www.jegs.com/i/Longacre+Racing/4 ... 0/10002/-1

might be that upper tensioner I told you about the oil hole not being drilled out on. Could be slapping on the stainless hex bolt depending on how tight or loose you have it tensioned.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky »

Nope. It was rod knock. #2 rod bearing is toast. Just dropped the bottom end off at the machine shop. It might take him some time to even get around to looking at it. It's just one guy and he stays constantly busy.

Big thanks to "mewantkouki" for giving me a hand pulling everything apart. I couldn't have stripped it down so fast by myself.

Carnage pics
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The part that I don't understand is how/why the intake manifold is so coated in oil. The rings looked fine and the cross hatching from the hone looks fine. The only time I have seen this much oil in the intake manifold was when I broke my ringlands on the stock pistons 5 years ago. THe PCV was recirculated then and all of my intake piping, supercharger, intake mani, etc were coated in oil.
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This does give me a chance to check the tensioners over and see if that oil hole needs to be drilled. I'll head back to the shop tomorrow and look them over.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky »

Greaser wrote:Whats the highest rpm you took it to after the turbo install?


Make sure rod caps where put back on the correct rod and not installed backwards. Tangs on bearings shold be facing each other. Welcome to engine building, as this stuff does happen. Look up on clevites and kings site for bearing failure analysis pdf's.

Post pics of the bearing shells i can tell you what did it.

The highest I have taken it since rebuilding is 6750 rpm. Here's a data log from the run just prior to the one where I heard the rod knock: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BykaiR ... sp=sharing. ***Keep in mind that speed is in KMH and temp is in Celsius***

There were a few rich spots in the tune, mostly during throttle tip-in, but AFRs were decent overall. The oil had a slight gas smell to it, but it wasn't that bad. And for the most part, the oil looked fairly normal. I had just changed it 150 miles ago.

The head, valves, and piston tops look great. There's not anything to indicate there was any detonation. Boost was a solid/steady 8 psi and timing at WOT was 18-20*


As far as I know, everything was reassembled correctly. Rods were kept with each cap and bearing. I actually even popped the rod caps back off at one point after reassembly to make sure the bearing tangs and rod stampings were matched up and on the correct side.


All of the rod bearings showed considerable wear. Like an idiot, I re-used the bearings because they didn't look too bad to me. So, my best guess is that I was mistaken about the wear and the bearings probably should have been replaced. Since it was rich enough to wash down the cylinder walls and destroy my rings, it makes sense that there was probably some excessive bearing wear going on too.


I thought about throwing in the towel and giving up, but I just couldn't do it. I've put too much blood sweat and tears into this thing too give up now. If the bottom end is salvageable and I just need new bearings, I'll fix it. If I have to buy new rods and the block/crank is toast... I'll have to make some difficult decisions about whether to keep going or just cut my losses and start parting her out.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by Greaser »

show me the other rod bearings take multiple angles.

If it didn't spin the mains, the block is fine. I'd throw another crank in it.

did you measure clearances or just plastigauge?

take apart oil pump check gerator gears and bypass spring and valve for operation and debris.


How you get through this is whats going to define you as a man. You are also getting valuable experience. Never give up, and when you do you can tell its the right time if you're not mad.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by superDorifto »

Do not even entertain the notion of giving up...

You will regret it, this build has been far too well thought out, and to Greaser's point at higher power levels this stuff happens. Little things. meticulous details that don't seem import will help you find the weak points.

A new crank and some fresh bearings are nothing compared to what you have invested.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by Greaser »

what kind of oil filter is on it?


please please please



dont tell me




please




that its a K&N oil filter
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky »

Thanks for the words of encouragement. Someone-who-shal-not-be-named kept mumbling something about an RB swap this weekend. My response was "KA-T 4 LIFE!". He's just kidding anyways... at least, I think he's kidding...

I only use Purolator PureONE filters. Gold box, part # PL24457. I know it by heart at this point :-)

I think most of the rod bearings are still in the rods, so I don't have any more pictures of those. Here are some pics of the plugs and head. (I think plugs 2 & 3 may have gotten mixed up)

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HEAD
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I had already planned to swap out the front cover with my spare one because of that deep scratch/gouge I posted earlier. It's only got a few thousand miles on it.

The cams, buckets, etc all looked good. We saw just a couple of copper flakes on the front journals when we removed the cams. Other than that, the valvetrain all looked fine. I think I got lucky there. I limped it home right after I heard the rod knocking as I was only 1/2 mile from home. I had it towed from there to my buddy's garage.

Of course, I'm going to clean the hell out of the head and every oil passage before I put her back together. I haven't seen the crank bearings or journals yet, so I don't know what I'm dealing with there yet. We were in a hurry to get it loaded into my car, so we pulled the pistons/rods, looked them over, and then put everything in the back of my car to deliver to the machine shop. I don't have time to d!ck around any more. I want to have it back in and running within 4 days of getting it back.



Here are the results of the leakdown test that I did. Of course, it was on a cold motor, so I'm not sure how much to trust the results:
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Also, does anyone know WTF this thing could be? It was in the oil pan and I have absolutely no idea where it came from. Looks kind of like a rivet, but it seems way too thick too be a rivet:

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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by Greaser »

That pure one may have done it. Do some research on its filter element micron size. Do you still have that check ball in the filter housing?

We purposely run the cheapest filters we can get and are currently kinda researching filter elements in conjunction with a thread on yellowbullet about issues with oil filters being too restrictive.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by Greaser »

Oh and ***** an rb. Big heavy low displacement piles of rocks. Along with the vg30 they are 2 of nissans engine i despise trying to make customers happy with. They are like the B16 of the nissan world. Useable power in the last 1000 rpm of the powerband. Go solid lifter and get rid of that **** intake manifold and the vg is good, but got damn the rest of the car usually sucks.

Rbs are real bull ****. End hateful racist rant.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by mewantkouki »

I'm going to have to disagree on the RB comment... BONE STOCK RB25det s2 gt3076r, 1000cc injector dynamics,conservatively tuned z32 ecu, 19psi = 430whp (freddy intake manifold & cxracing tubular manifold) Transmission isn't made of glass, sounds 100X better than any ka, and it spun to 7800rpm with no fuss. To each his own though. I love KA's and still own one so don't mistake this for hatred in any way. lol

Saving that KA:
I'd err on the side of not re-sizing the crank, find another unmolested stocker, replace rod if it's effed up, have that one piston that had bearing scrapes on the upper and lower ring land looked over, hone, re-ring, and all new bearings. KING bearings ftw! I've used ACL aluglides with no problems either. Clevites tend to run on the tighter side for some reason but I have used them a couple times with no problems. I wish I had a stock KA intake manifold on hand to do some back to back comparisons against that xcessive thing. If you can get your hands on a moates.net board or a chipped s13 ecu I can probably get you an enthalpy tune pretty cheap you can ride around on while you figure out nistune properly.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by cham »

2 guys I know have rb25 s2. They run stock 7lbs and I can pull up beside them and smile while I'm passing by with my ka. They sound mean and sexy with those blast pipes. But ain't worth a damn unless you have upgrades and turn the boost up some.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky »

Greaser wrote:That pure one may have done it. Do some research on its filter element micron size. Do you still have that check ball in the filter housing?

We purposely run the cheapest filters we can get and are currently kinda researching filter elements in conjunction with a thread on yellowbullet about issues with oil filters being too restrictive.
Seriously? I thought the Purolators were good filters. I ran the Purolators for 5 years on my supercharger setup and never had an issue. What filters do you run?

I'm running a Skullworks oil block, so no check ball.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky »

mewantkouki wrote:I'm going to have to disagree on the RB comment... BONE STOCK RB25det s2 gt3076r, 1000cc injector dynamics,conservatively tuned z32 ecu, 19psi = 430whp (freddy intake manifold & cxracing tubular manifold) Transmission isn't made of glass, sounds 100X better than any ka, and it spun to 7800rpm with no fuss. To each his own though. I love KA's and still own one so don't mistake this for hatred in any way. lol

Saving that KA:
I'd err on the side of not re-sizing the crank, find another unmolested stocker, replace rod if it's effed up, have that one piston that had bearing scrapes on the upper and lower ring land looked over, hone, re-ring, and all new bearings. KING bearings ftw! I've used ACL aluglides with no problems either. Clevites tend to run on the tighter side for some reason but I have used them a couple times with no problems. I wish I had a stock KA intake manifold on hand to do some back to back comparisons against that xcessive thing. If you can get your hands on a moates.net board or a chipped s13 ecu I can probably get you an enthalpy tune pretty cheap you can ride around on while you figure out nistune properly.
The only real benefit I can see to an RB besides a smoother running engine, is that I might be able to squeeze a tiny bit more power out of it on pump gas. That would be a hell of a lot of work for a small increase in power. I'd probably go with 2JZ before I'd consider going RB.

Why do you think I should avoid re-sizing the crank? I can't think of any reason why oversized bearings would be a bad thing. I've been reading up on bearings and seeing people recommend sticking with OEM bearings if you're not going to resize the crank because unlike Clevite/ACL, they have different grades and are not a "one size fits all" bearing. They're also expensive as hell though. I am planning to go with King bearings if I have to have the crank turned.

This is all speculation anyways. Until the machinist calls me and let's me know what the deal is, I'm just waiting in limbo here.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by Greaser »

purolator or fram, the cheapest ones.

cutting the crank does allow you to get the target .002 or .0025 or even .003 if it was a race engine. I think the smallest oil clearance on my engine is .0015 with some clevites.

i would run a bi-metal over a tri-metal bearing depending on power per cylinder. bi-metal has better embeddability and conformability with less load bearing capability vs the tri metal

kingbearings.com/files/Engine_Bearing_Materials.pdf is a document that explains the differences in bimetal vs trimetal. I have bi-metal bearings in my motor.

our shop race car has acl race hx series extra clearnance tri metal bearings.



another thing youre not doing is logging oil pressure and reviewing logs.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by mewantkouki »

cham wrote:2 guys I know have rb25 s2. They run stock 7lbs and I can pull up beside them and smile while I'm passing by with my ka. They sound mean and sexy with those blast pipes. But ain't worth a damn unless you have upgrades and turn the boost up some.
That's because a stock RB25 runs a **** ceramic wheel t28... Try pulling on a holset powered one. lol The two extra cylinders make a pretty big difference. I'm not derailing this thread into RB vs KA though so I'm ending it here. It was just a suggestion to an easy 400whp without having a fully built motor.

Adam: I've personally had a bad experience with re-ground cranks. If you trust your machinist I guess it shouldn't matter. Verify everything with a micrometer. Shouldn't the block be align honed when doing that too? I saw ARP mains in yours when we tore it down, not sure if it was done already. Have the machinist look over piston #2 as well it was kind of scuffed on the side from bearing bits.

PS 1j > 2j (CHEAPER, less beat on, and pretty much identical except for the stroke) Non VVTi ftw
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky »

Yes, it was line honed when it was built the first time with the ARP main studs. I just hope he can get to it sometime in the next month. He does awesome work, but he's busy, so turn around can be slow. Especially for a "little guy" like myself. He has shops dropping off blocks/heads/etc all the time and I'm sure he makes more money with them. I'm going to try and stop by once a week just to check on things.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by cham »

mewantkouki wrote:
cham wrote:2 guys I know have rb25 s2. They run stock 7lbs and I can pull up beside them and smile while I'm passing by with my ka. They sound mean and sexy with those blast pipes. But ain't worth a damn unless you have upgrades and turn the boost up some.
That's because a stock RB25 runs a **** ceramic wheel t28... Try pulling on a holset powered one. lol The two extra cylinders make a pretty big difference. I'm not derailing this thread into RB vs KA though so I'm ending it here. It was just a suggestion to an easy 400whp without having a fully built motor.

Adam: I've personally had a bad experience with re-ground cranks. If you trust your machinist I guess it shouldn't matter. Verify everything with a micrometer. Shouldn't the block be align honed when doing that too? I saw ARP mains in yours when we tore it down, not sure if it was done already. Have the machinist look over piston #2 as well it was kind of scuffed on the side from bearing bits.

PS 1j > 2j (CHEAPER, less beat on, and pretty much identical except for the stroke) Non VVTi ftw
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by cham »

I Guess you missed the upgrade part and turning the boost up some.
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