Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd, S14

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Alonso
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by Alonso » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:38 pm

My fans are triggered using a generic output based on coolant temp as you described. Make sure your wiring matches the selected output pin.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:01 am

I did make that change in the software each time, but clearly I didn't do something right. Maybe I didn't upload the change each time I switched it. I need to go back and actually label everything I wired in today. I've got a bit of a mess going on right now as I figure everything out piece by piece. Thanks for confirming that it should work. I've been thinking about it tonight and I know what I need to do to get it working. Might take two relays. I've got to trace some stuff out to be sure.

Something I found very odd was that when I connected the flex fuel sensor to the BOB and enabled flex fuel in the settings, I see 0.0V on the Data window. However, all 4 of the ADC inputs show the exact same voltage which hovers around 2.0-2.3V. But the thing is, the flex fuel wire is literally the only thing connected to the BOB right now. I'm not using the ground or 5V input or anything. There's just the one wire going to the flex fuel input. If it does it again tomorrow, I'll try and get it on video.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:13 am

It's so fun learning a completely new system as you install it! In all honesty though, I did read through the Nismotronic manual to figure out the basics before I started. And I watched a bunch of Nismotronic videos on J-K Tuning's YouTube channel. Its hard to be prepared for these unexpected issues. It's kind of one of those things where you don't really know what it is that you don't know until you actually jump in and need to know it. Or at least, it is for me.

I hope my mistakes can help someone else avoid making the same ones. I've made several decisions that didn't turn out as expected, and it sucks facing the fact that you just spent time and money on something only to fail miserably (spun bearing, anyone?). Those are the toughest posts to make, but I hope those are the most helpful to others.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by Alonso » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:03 am

Are you using a native SR20DET base tcd or a KA tcd converted to cop as your base?

I run the SR20DET tcd with no issues. I previously had issues with the car not starting using a ka tcd(that has been fixed) but I've been running the SR tune ever since.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:07 pm

I used a KA tune for a Z32 MAF, 810cc injectors and used the COP Wizard. I then went back and modified coil dwell settings for the LS2/LQ9 coils. I'm sure I can get the car started using a modified SR20DET base tune. I'll give that a try.

Also, all of a sudden the pieces fell into place and I realized how I can implement the factory A/C safeguards using the 2nd generic output. I can simply use another relay to interrupt the signal going to the compressor and A/C fan under those 3 RPM, TPS, and ECT parameters. I know exactly what I need to do, so I will try it tomorrow and hopefully get those two things working.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:44 pm

Alonso wrote:Are you using a native SR20DET base tcd or a KA tcd converted to cop as your base?

I run the SR20DET tcd with no issues. I previously had issues with the car not starting using a ka tcd(that has been fixed) but I've been running the SR tune ever since.
adamky wrote: I'm sure I can get the car started using a modified SR20DET base tune. I'll give that a try.

Well, that did the trick. I took your suggestion and started over using this tune as a base: S14 SR20DET (750 N62).tcd. I did a little tweaking like changing the dwell settings for my coils and adjusting the injector settings a little. The generic output is now working exactly as expected. The fans come on exactly when I want them to and turn off the same. I had to use an additional relay so that I could get the fans to come on when the A/C was on, while also preventing the A/C from being activated when the fans are turned on.
I could use my 2nd generic output to shut the A/C down under certain conditions, but I have another intention in mind for that 2nd output so I don't think I'm going to do that.

I can already tell a big difference in the way the car starts and idles now. I don't know if that's because of the coils or the tune (or both), but the motor feels very smooth and responsive.

John emailed me back and we're going to chat soon. He already told me that the TPS sensor is self learning so I didn't need to mess with all of those settings. Lol, oh well. Hopefully I'll be able car back on the road to do some tuning in the next day or two.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by JimmBooost » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:01 am

This is some great stuff, I want to tune my own build as well, but Intimidating thing to do. Wanting to learn away, as I'm gathering parts together.

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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:03 pm

More progress. Today I configured my LC-1's analog output to scale from the default 0-5V, to a linear 0-2.5V signal. This is a necessary step if you want to run an analog signal into the factory O2 sensor's ECU pin. I wasn't sure if it was working at first because in my live data screen I was seeing anything from 1.3-3.5V. Confused, I disconnected the wideband from the gauge and plugged it into my laptop to check the settings and my custom 0-2.5V setup was still there. And I had the ECU connected to the correct analog output wire, which in my case was Analog 2.

I had a hunch of what might be going on, so I hooked my multimeter to the wire and went through a data log to compare the voltage from the multimeter to the O2 voltage displayed in Nismotronic. The voltage at the pin was exactly half of what I was seeing in the software. The explanation is fairly simple. If I ran the analog output from the LC-1 into one of the normal ADC analog inputs on the break-out-board, it would be a 0-5V signal. However, the O2 input apparently either can't handle or can't interpret anything above 2.5V. This is why, if you don't have a way to change your analog output from your wideband, you have to make a voltage divider to lower the max voltage to 2.5. So, there is something going on behind the scenes that automatically doubles that voltage before it's displayed in the software.


Anyways, on to something a little more interesting. I've always wanted a TIG welder and to learn how to use it. Well, I finally talked my friend into going in on one and we just picked it up today. Me and this machine are about to become great friends.

Pics or it didn't happen...(It's a Lincoln TIG200 if you can t view the pics for some reason)
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by JimmBooost » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:32 pm

Nice pick up Adam!

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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by supakat » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:27 am

Nice adam. Me and you will need to text back and forth. My alpha TIG is coming in the mail today. I have a 336 cubic sq ft tank. I was lucky because my bro in law got one from a shop in Orlando for free. It is Airgas so I went and swapped for a straight argon tank. Was $123 out the door. I looked at buying my own tank and a 55 cubic sq ft (same size as a scuba tank) would run me $160 but then cost me around $30 to fill each time. The 55 is good for about 3-4 hours straight welding. So the 336 should last me about 5 years. I ordered my electrodes and filler rods from eBay. I hate how expensive they charge at local shops. Friday I am looking to weld my grease nipples onto the steering rack. I will put up a video on Youtube soon for updates.

Keep it up. As with the plating and other projects you have done, I know you will get good results with the TIG.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:48 pm

For sure. We've had that full tank of argon for like 6 years now. We got it initially because we thought we might be able to do some aluminum welding with the MIG. But it wasn't possible so it's been collecting dust. I was amazed when we hooked it up and the tank was still full.

Well, I drove the car home tonight on the SR ECU. The tune obviously needs a lot of work, as even under even moderate load, AFRs hit low 10's. But I'm just happy to have it back on the road.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by p00t » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:10 pm

I noticed the same things as far as the car driving smoother on COP. I changed nothing except for the wires and coils. I drove before and after on the same day. I was very surprised because the AFRs are smoother and the difference is even during idling/part throttle.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:13 pm

So it must be the coils then. I know this... I used to have to give my car throttle just to start it up due to no IACV. Since getting the car going on this setup, I do not have to touch the gas at all to get it started. I do have to give it a little gas to maintain a steady idle until it warms up a little, but I'm still working on the tune. I also plan to put my IACV back in when I switch to speed density.


I shortened my plug wires a bit. They weren't that bad before, but I knew they'd look better if I shortened them. I also added a little organization with some black zip ties.
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I got the car home, but I'm still figuring out some sensor wiring and getting everything set up.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:47 pm

I've been chasing my tail with these new pressure sensors and I finally found my culprit today. The signal wire for my oil pressure sensor wasn't seated in the connector properly and had gotten pushed back. If that wasn't bad enough, the wire wasn't crimped correctly. I fixed that and now I'm getting accurate readings from both oil and fuel pressure sensors. I still need to get the MAP sensor setup so I can at least log boost. And John is looking at an issue with my flex sensor so hopefully I'll have that going before too long.

Anyways, I'm getting lots of info now. I just need to figure out what to do with it all.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by cleantune » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:33 pm

Man, you've been doing WORK on this project lately! Your engine bay is looking clean! I like what you did with the plug wires.

How does your data logging work? Do you choose a time period for it to record?

On a different note, have you had a chance to mess around with that tig welder yet?
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:15 pm

The on-board logging can be triggered via RPM, TPS, or Load. I have it set to kick on at 500 rpm, and stop at 0. So it pretty much records anytime the engine is running. There isn't much space though, so it fills up quick. I've only got it set this way because I've been trying to isolate this weird issue that's happening sometimes on startups where it doesn't want to idle. It's intermittent so it's been difficult to narrow down. The on-board logging allowed me to see what was going on before I was able to get the laptop connected.

Unfortunately, I haven't messed with the TIG yet. We just redid my buddy's garage with lots of new shelving, a split A/C unit, and some other little things. I'm hoping to mess with it a little this weekend.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:07 pm

I finally got flat-shift, aka no-lift-to-shift, aka full-throttle-shift,... working and it is FANTASTIC! I'm using the cruise control's cancel switch (which normally disables cruise control as soon as you press the clutch pedal). It was already there and it was a switched ground, so all I had to do was tap into it and run that to the ECU. That was the easy part.

The hard part was trying to get used to holding WOT between shifts. I had to work into it slowly because it felt so unnatural. I started @ like 3000 rpm and >30% throttle. Meaning that if I keep the throttle over 30% during a shift, I'd get a 3000 limiter as soon as the clutch pedal was moved. I had trouble with it for a good while before I realized that I was instinctively letting the throttle drop below 30% between shifts. As a result, the limiter didn't kick in, and with the clutch pedal depressed, the RPM shot up to the 7300 limiter.

I realized at this point that I could test this an even easier way without actually shifting gears. All I had to do was keep the throttle over 30% (while in gear) and just barely press the clutch pedal. Sure enough, it worked as expected. I wanted to give shifting a try again. So, I worked up to 4000 rpm and >50% throttle. I revved out to 7200 in 2nd gear and when I shifted, it went into gear easily, but after I released the clutch, there was a quick drop in power before it got back into boost.

At this point, I was feeling more comfortable with trusting the limiter to kick in. I tried 4500 rpm, and that was much better. I just looked at a log of a 2-3 shift and during the 1/2 second it took me to shift, boost only dropped from 17 down to 10 for a split second before it was back @ 17+. I have tried 5000 rpm and it worked quite well too. The sweet spot is definitely somewhere between 4500 and 5000. I need to do more testing and data logs to figure out which is best.

One of the best parts about this is that it makes it so much easier to shift @ WOT. Because your RPMs drop to right around where they need to be during a shift, your transmission gear speeds end up being close to matching, so it just slides right into gear. And keep in mind that I have never been able to shift very fast with this transmission. With my old KA trans and B&M shifter, I could bang gears all day. But the Z32 trans has never liked high RPM shifting. That all changes now :dance:

I'm going to make a video soon showing what happened between shifts without FTS, and what happens with it activated. I'll get some data logs to compare too.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by cleantune » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:28 am

This is awesome! I've never heard of this before. So, I'm trying to wrap my head around this system.... So you stay on the throttle and when you push the clutch in, it triggers a rev limiter (to whatever RPM you set it at based on a throttle input % ? ), then when the clutch is released you are basically right at the RPM needed to start the next gear?
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:25 pm

Yes, exactly. Without it, my car loses boost between shifts, so there is a small delay before its back at full boost. With it activated, I only lose 6-7 psi during shifts.

Several months ago, I raced a friend on here and our cars were very evenly matched (at that time). The big difference was that his GT2876 (SR20DET) spooled very fast so there was no delay between shifts. My car​ would lag for a second but once back into boost, we were both accelerating at the same rate. Flat shift would have kept me right next to him between shifts. (And for the record, my car is pretty heavy, and I had his brother in my passenger seat. So I had a good 350 or so lbs on him.)

You just have to remember that the limiter is only engaged while the clutch pedal is pressed, so you have to let up on it quickly and completely after the shift.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by JimmBooost » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:15 pm

vicious!!! in a 20+ year old car having to shift with an H-Pattern keeping you boost, similar feature in a review I was just watching regarding the 370z.. its programmed to rev match your RPMs during downshift of course without having to manually rev match yourself.. is this also applying to your "tap in cruise control?" pretty awesome s*** there Adam! Having your clutch engaging cruise control sort of speak to keep boost into the next shift pretty cool.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/20 ... -explained

Check that out Adam, and You've done it yourself. pretty ************** awesome man!

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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:00 pm

JimmBooost wrote:vicious!!! in a 20+ year old car having to shift with an H-Pattern keeping you boost, similar feature in a review I was just watching regarding the 370z.. its programmed to rev match your RPMs during downshift of course without having to manually rev match yourself.. is this also applying to your "tap in cruise control?" pretty awesome s*** there Adam! Having your clutch engaging cruise control sort of speak to keep boost into the next shift pretty cool.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/20 ... -explained

Check that out Adam, and You've done it yourself. pretty ************** awesome man!
Yes, when I said something about the gear speeds matching, I was referring to rev-matching. For some reason I couldn't think of the right name for it at the time. But, that's basically what it is doing and that's why it makes shifts so much easier... although it only works on upshifts.

I think my wording about the clutch switch and cruise control was a little confusing. I'm actually not using cruise control for any of this. I'm only using the cruise control's clutch switch as an on-off signal to the ECU. (The cruise control is unaffected by any of this so I still have working cruise control.)
The flat shift is a feature available through Nismotronic and it is also available in some form in all standalones. Some standalones also have anti-lag that you can set up to retard timing while on the flat shift limiter. This creates lots of exhaust energy and keeps the turbo fully spooled. This is something you probably only need if you have a pretty big turbo. For my setup, I'm not sure it's necessary. It's actually not even an option right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if John from Nismotronic could figure out a way to implement it.

One other interesting thing is that I can sort of use the flat shift for roll racing as a basic type of "rolling launch control". All I have to do is floor the throttle and barely press the clutch pedal, just enough to trigger the limiter. If I sit there and hold it, it maintains whatever RPM I have flat shift set for. This holds a constant speed while building a little boost. So, as soon as I let up off the clutch pedal, I'm instantly in boost and accelerating.

THIS is why I had to ditch my NISTUNE setup. Features like anti-lag and flat shift are not just novelty options. They can really make a turbocharged car faster by eliminating or greatly reducing boost lag to the point where you're in boost from the time you launch, all the way until you feel like letting up off the gas pedal.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Sun May 07, 2017 12:43 am

So, it turns out that the injectors that I was running previously, 1600cc Bosch CNG injectors, are super sensitive to fuel temps and are basically just NOT recommended for use with gasoline or ethanol. They are Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) injectors and were really never meant to use with anything else. I was having very erratic AFR \issues when I was running them with the Nistune ECU and once I learned of this issue and they mentioned my specific part number, I knew I'd have to get something else. I found a decent deal on a barely used set of ID1700x injectors.

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The previous owner had just had them sent back to Injector Dynamics for cleaning and flow testing:
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These injectors were shorter than the Bosch CNG's by about 24mm. I had to order new injector adapters/extensions from Treadstone and they showed up late last week. I finally got them installed today. I was able to pull latency info off of the Injector Dynamics website, which was something that I was NOT able to find at all for the old BOSCH CNG's (since they were never designed for it). After that was set up in the tune, I made a few other small adjustments and it started right up.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Sun May 07, 2017 12:51 am

adamky wrote:Some standalones also have anti-lag that you can set up to retard timing while on the flat shift limiter. This creates lots of exhaust energy and keeps the turbo fully spooled. This is something you probably only need if you have a pretty big turbo. For my setup, I'm not sure it's necessary. It's actually not even an option right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if John from Nismotronic could figure out a way to implement it.
Just an update... I talked to John about the possibility of implementing anti-lag timing retard to Full Throttle Shift and he said it is definitely something that could be added. :cool:

In case you can't tell, I am loving this ECU. The amount of info I am able to collect is just fantastic. I am sooo glad I made the change.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by Alonso » Sun May 07, 2017 9:15 pm

See!

I knew you wouldn't regret it
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Tue May 09, 2017 7:32 pm

Yes, thanks for the recommendation! It's pretty awesome, and John has been great with support. We've spoken on the phone several times and emailed back and forth a bunch.

I'm having a little trouble getting a smooth idle with the new injectors. Hopefully I can tinker with settings in the next few days and get it running a little smoother.
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Wed May 24, 2017 12:37 am

This is the reason that I bought the Bluetooth module with the ECU:
https://youtu.be/NUBdfq4JGfM
Using an app called Tunerview, I can see live sensor data, set warning limits, and even data log. I can actually even export the data log as a .csv file to be viewed in Excel.

As shown in the video, I'm also using an app that puts the tablet into standby when I turn off the key, and wakes it up when I turn the ignition back on. If I root the tablet, I can do a few other things like have it actually power down and then power back up (as opposed to just putting it into standby).

F*cking technology, man :obscene-smokingred:
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Wed May 24, 2017 10:43 pm

It's speed-density conversion time. To start this, I needed to weld a bung onto the aluminum MAF housing for the IAT sensor, which is mandatory for the conversion. I hated to modify the pretty MAF housing, but it's the easiest way to do this. See, with both MAF and MAP/IAT installed at the same time, I can setup a toggle switch that will allow me to switch between them, do a little tuning, and then switch back if I need to. The AEM MAP sensor is already installed and working, so IAT has been the only thing holding me up.

I almost took the bung to a local shop to be welded before I realized: 1.) I'm broke, and 2.) I now have a TIG welder. I know what you're thinking... but Adam, you barely know how to turn it on, much less know the first thing about using it. Well... I've never let that stop me before, so...
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It's ugly, but I bet it don't leak! For my first real attempt at TIG welding anything, I'm happy with it.
Wiseco/Eagle, JWT S1 cams, BC valve springs, PT5857, ID1700 injectors, SR20DET ECU w/ Nismotronic, etc, etc...
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p00t
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by p00t » Fri May 26, 2017 5:04 pm

adamky wrote: Something I found very odd was that when I connected the flex fuel sensor to the BOB and enabled flex fuel in the settings, I see 0.0V on the Data window. However, all 4 of the ADC inputs show the exact same voltage which hovers around 2.0-2.3V. But the thing is, the flex fuel wire is literally the only thing connected to the BOB right now. I'm not using the ground or 5V input or anything. There's just the one wire going to the flex fuel input. If it does it again tomorrow, I'll try and get it on video.
If you have ADC inputs unconnected with no pull-down resister in the design when you enable the ADC circuits you will get a floating voltage like that. I might be interpreting what you are saying incorrectly but if you put a meter to the pin and ground you will get 100K-1Mohm if there is a pull down on the board (or the same if there is a pull-up to 5v power).

Worse case is you have a, intermittent break in the wire (an open) and then the analog will momentarily read 2.3v. Maybe you are running fuel with no ethanol and it should read 0 or 5v depending on the logic. You might push way too far into the ethanol timing map and detonate.

It's better to have it designed in a fail safe way where without the pin connected the reading puts you 100% into your gas map.

:twocents-twocents:
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by adamky » Fri May 26, 2017 11:27 pm

Yes, John explained to me that the ADC inputs have to be grounded when they aren't in use.

The ethanol thing is a little weird. Apparently, the flex sensor input on the board is designed to get a signal directly from the ethanol sensor. But for some reason, the currently released firmware doesn't have that feature available..? So, John gave me some beta firmware that he has had working on the test bench and a few test vehicles.

The next part of this story involves a week or so of weird startup issues that I didn't realize at the time were a result of an issue with the firmware. I thought I had messed something up or I had a short somewhere, so I just about went crazy trying to find an issue. Turns out that the firmware just didn't work well with my particular ECU. So, John has been working on fixing this and is supposed to have something for me soon.

Of course, I have the option of running the 0-5V output from my ECA-2 to one of the ADC inputs, which is what I am currently doing. Ethanol percent is reading correctly in the software and right now, there is nothing set up in the tune for flex fuel. The sensor is set up, but all of the ethanol trim tables are still at zero. So, no worries about blowing anything up due to that.
Wiseco/Eagle, JWT S1 cams, BC valve springs, PT5857, ID1700 injectors, SR20DET ECU w/ Nismotronic, etc, etc...
--> YouTube channel --> my build thread
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Re: Adam's formerly supercharged... now soon-to-be-turbo'd,

Post by p00t » Mon May 29, 2017 7:10 pm

Does it blend between two tables (like the secondary knock table during knock)?
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