My Condensed Build Thread (Now With Megasquirt!)
My Condensed Build Thread (Now With Megasquirt!)
Hey everyone, long time lurker but rare poster. I've been KA-T for a few years now, I've never really had a build thread though. I've considered my car "done" for a while and didn't want to post a finished build all in one post, but I just ordered Megasquirt for it so I figured this was a big enough change to warrant a thread. I'll post a few pictures of my car's different stages, but the main focus will be Megasquirt and everything associated with it. Now on to the good stuff
My first KA-T setup was bottom mount, like most people. Rom tune, 370cc injectors, stock mafs, eBay t25. That turbo lasted one track day, so a few months later I got a Pulsar GTi-R t28. That setup was awesome on the street, it spooled quickly and made decent power. This is what it looked like around that time.
Exterior:
Engine:
That setup lasted about a year, I got greedy on the dyno and turned the boost up, maxed out the injectors and mafs and cracked my ringlands. Here's the dyno graph:
I swapped engines after that and kept the same turbo setup, it was easier to get a stock KA for a few hundred dollars than rebuild one. I eventually blew a head gasket at the track last summer (2011), and I decided to finally build an engine. This is how the car looked at the time of the blown head gasket:
After that I found a built KA for sale, made the mistake of putting it in only to have to pull it out and rebuild it. Whoever built it had no idea what they were doing, absolutely no machine work was done. It had crazy blow by, spun bearings, and a leaking head gasket. The only thing worth saving were the rods, I didn't even end up using that block. I got a spare block from home and built that one, I was short on cash though and had new OEM pistons from a previous planned build so I ended up using those. I figured if something was going to destroy the ringlands I'd rather have it happen on stock pistons rather than expensive ones. Once that engine was built I broke it in NA and then put my new setup on. Details below the picture:
550cc injectors, z32 mafs, Precision 5431, K1 rods, stock pistons, ARP everything, Fel-Pro head gasket. Manifold is a flipped t2 bottom mount with a t3 flange and external gate provision welded on. Here's a picture of that in case anyone is interested:
I was at 6 psi for a while, then upped it to 10 psi. It was a lot of fun, enough power for this:
Since I figured my engine was set for a while, I focused on paint. That wasn't an easy process, but since this is a condensed thread I'll just show the final result haha.
Of course things went wrong, my wastegate line popped off and I overboosted. Ringlands ended up looking like this:
So I pulled the engine back out for another rebuild. This time I had a good job and was able to actually build the engine. Everything stayed the same except I got Wiseco pistons and a Cosworth head gasket. I also switched to a braided -4 AN wastegate line.
It's been back in action for about a month now, but I'm tired of the ROM tune. For starters, my mafs is way too close to my turbo, but I don't have any room to put it farther away. I'd recirc my bov, but again I have almost no room. I've thought about switching to blow through, but I realized map is the way to go so I went ahead and ordered a Megasquirt PNP for the KA yesterday. Some friends of mine have experience with MS so hopefully installation and tuning go easily. I pulled my .bin file from my current tune and have been checking it out, not sure how much of it I can use with MS though. I'll probably be asking a lot of MS related questions, but once everything is all together and running I'll share my tune and hopefully be able to answer some of my own questions. Thanks for reading!
-Chris
My first KA-T setup was bottom mount, like most people. Rom tune, 370cc injectors, stock mafs, eBay t25. That turbo lasted one track day, so a few months later I got a Pulsar GTi-R t28. That setup was awesome on the street, it spooled quickly and made decent power. This is what it looked like around that time.
Exterior:
Engine:
That setup lasted about a year, I got greedy on the dyno and turned the boost up, maxed out the injectors and mafs and cracked my ringlands. Here's the dyno graph:
I swapped engines after that and kept the same turbo setup, it was easier to get a stock KA for a few hundred dollars than rebuild one. I eventually blew a head gasket at the track last summer (2011), and I decided to finally build an engine. This is how the car looked at the time of the blown head gasket:
After that I found a built KA for sale, made the mistake of putting it in only to have to pull it out and rebuild it. Whoever built it had no idea what they were doing, absolutely no machine work was done. It had crazy blow by, spun bearings, and a leaking head gasket. The only thing worth saving were the rods, I didn't even end up using that block. I got a spare block from home and built that one, I was short on cash though and had new OEM pistons from a previous planned build so I ended up using those. I figured if something was going to destroy the ringlands I'd rather have it happen on stock pistons rather than expensive ones. Once that engine was built I broke it in NA and then put my new setup on. Details below the picture:
550cc injectors, z32 mafs, Precision 5431, K1 rods, stock pistons, ARP everything, Fel-Pro head gasket. Manifold is a flipped t2 bottom mount with a t3 flange and external gate provision welded on. Here's a picture of that in case anyone is interested:
I was at 6 psi for a while, then upped it to 10 psi. It was a lot of fun, enough power for this:
Since I figured my engine was set for a while, I focused on paint. That wasn't an easy process, but since this is a condensed thread I'll just show the final result haha.
Of course things went wrong, my wastegate line popped off and I overboosted. Ringlands ended up looking like this:
So I pulled the engine back out for another rebuild. This time I had a good job and was able to actually build the engine. Everything stayed the same except I got Wiseco pistons and a Cosworth head gasket. I also switched to a braided -4 AN wastegate line.
It's been back in action for about a month now, but I'm tired of the ROM tune. For starters, my mafs is way too close to my turbo, but I don't have any room to put it farther away. I'd recirc my bov, but again I have almost no room. I've thought about switching to blow through, but I realized map is the way to go so I went ahead and ordered a Megasquirt PNP for the KA yesterday. Some friends of mine have experience with MS so hopefully installation and tuning go easily. I pulled my .bin file from my current tune and have been checking it out, not sure how much of it I can use with MS though. I'll probably be asking a lot of MS related questions, but once everything is all together and running I'll share my tune and hopefully be able to answer some of my own questions. Thanks for reading!
-Chris
Last edited by Chris28 on Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
- emo_tactical9
- Belongs To The TOP CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS!
- Posts: 3086
- Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:21 am
- Location: Bowling Green, KY
Make sure you turn overboost protection on. LOL
It works. I really like your car, nice colors.
It works. I really like your car, nice colors.
Just call me Adam.
95 240: DIYPNP and T28.
08 Honda Fit
84 200sx: Sold after almost 10 years.
My file hosting:Calum,MegaSquirt,FSM
95 240: DIYPNP and T28.
08 Honda Fit
84 200sx: Sold after almost 10 years.
My file hosting:Calum,MegaSquirt,FSM
- 500hpKA240sx
- Encyclopedia-Nissan
- Posts: 1100
- Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:37 pm
- Location: Bourbon, MO
how long have you had that paint job? and has the pic been on the net for awhile like on flickr or photobucket???? I swear i have seen that same pic before it looks really sick
viewtopic.php?t=53160&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Paul Walker- 1973-2013 Race In Paradise. you will be forever missed
Paul Walker- 1973-2013 Race In Paradise. you will be forever missed
OVERBOOST! FTW. Mine is set for 315kPa. Keep having fun with the car.
12.96 @ 116.36 - 2.1 60ft - 11/2011
13.1 @ 114 - 2.3 60ft - 8/2012
KA24DE-T
Build thread/Blog
YouTube Channel
13.1 @ 114 - 2.3 60ft - 8/2012
KA24DE-T
Build thread/Blog
YouTube Channel
-
- Knows Some Stuff About 240's!
- Posts: 303
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:08 am
- Location: Owasso, ok
Haha thanks guys. It's the OEM color combo, it looks really good on coupes so I figured I'd try it out on a hatch.
Got some goodies in the mail today, the PNP kit, the IAT sensor kit, and the replacement trigger wheel.
First question about tuning is setting base timing. Just to make sure I'm understanding this correctly, The PNP installation article says to set fixed timing to 15* in tunerstudio and to burn that data. Then I adjust the trigger angle until I'm getting 15* via a timing light, correct? The other way to do it is to set the trigger angle to it's default value of 72*, then it says to turn the distributor until you get a steady 10*, then make sure in tunerstudio you're back at 15*. Could this just be a type in the write-up?
Also, this step is just syncing megasquirt to the mechanical timing, correct? Just like how 20* is stock base timing, MS uses 15*. So in my timing map if I have a value of 20*, it's going to add 5* of timing advance in order to get to the 20*, but the stock ECU would add 0* because it's already at 20*.
Also, the timing map currently goes up to 100% (101.3 kPa, 14.7 psi), so no boost. Once I start adding boost I'll have to scale the map to have more cells, so if I make my max y value 200 I'd be tuning for max boost of about 15 psi, 300 would be 30 psi, and 400 would be around 45 psi. Wastegate is at 10 psi right now, so if I tune up to 200% ignition load and set boost cut a little under that I should be fine.
Sorry for the wall of text haha.
Got some goodies in the mail today, the PNP kit, the IAT sensor kit, and the replacement trigger wheel.
First question about tuning is setting base timing. Just to make sure I'm understanding this correctly, The PNP installation article says to set fixed timing to 15* in tunerstudio and to burn that data. Then I adjust the trigger angle until I'm getting 15* via a timing light, correct? The other way to do it is to set the trigger angle to it's default value of 72*, then it says to turn the distributor until you get a steady 10*, then make sure in tunerstudio you're back at 15*. Could this just be a type in the write-up?
Also, this step is just syncing megasquirt to the mechanical timing, correct? Just like how 20* is stock base timing, MS uses 15*. So in my timing map if I have a value of 20*, it's going to add 5* of timing advance in order to get to the 20*, but the stock ECU would add 0* because it's already at 20*.
Also, the timing map currently goes up to 100% (101.3 kPa, 14.7 psi), so no boost. Once I start adding boost I'll have to scale the map to have more cells, so if I make my max y value 200 I'd be tuning for max boost of about 15 psi, 300 would be 30 psi, and 400 would be around 45 psi. Wastegate is at 10 psi right now, so if I tune up to 200% ignition load and set boost cut a little under that I should be fine.
Sorry for the wall of text haha.
-
- Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
- Posts: 961
- Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:00 pm
135KPA is about 5 psi. What I have read is you want to minus 100 then divide by 7 to convert to PSI.
For setting base timing.
Go in tunerstudio set it to "fixed timing" use 10 or 15 if you are using the stock ignition coil. Set your trigger angle to 345. Start car, then use the timing light twist until you get it on whatever you have your fixed timing set to. If you cannot get it to match up, you want to increase your trigger angle a little, I did increments of 5. Mine came out to about 355.
Once you have set your base timing, set it back to "use table".
BTW there is a bunch of good info in the DIYAUTOTUNE section here.
For setting base timing.
Go in tunerstudio set it to "fixed timing" use 10 or 15 if you are using the stock ignition coil. Set your trigger angle to 345. Start car, then use the timing light twist until you get it on whatever you have your fixed timing set to. If you cannot get it to match up, you want to increase your trigger angle a little, I did increments of 5. Mine came out to about 355.
Once you have set your base timing, set it back to "use table".
BTW there is a bunch of good info in the DIYAUTOTUNE section here.
- Matt Cramer
- KA-T.org Sponsor
- Posts: 934
- Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:34 am
- Contact:
Sorry, yes, that's a typo. Some cars were set to 15 degrees and some to 10, and we accidentally mixed the directions. Get this one idling at 15 degrees.
Matt at DIYAutoTune.com - Megasquirt ECUs, fuel injectors, wideband O2 sensor systems, and more
Nissan plug and play engine management now in stock!
Nissan plug and play engine management now in stock!
- sdaigle240
- Belongs To The TOP CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS!
- Posts: 4670
- Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:53 am
- Location: CONN.
i like this dood already!
airman wrote:I'm all about spreadsheets. Bitches love spreadsheets.
schmauster920 wrote:I shall cast my own pistons in the sands of time, then forge them in the depths of hell.. as funds allow
hy35 18psi Build Thread: viewtopic.php?t=38784
RIP MJL best friend of 20 years and the man who showed me 240s
+2.4!sdaigle240 wrote:i like this dood already!
12.96 @ 116.36 - 2.1 60ft - 11/2011
13.1 @ 114 - 2.3 60ft - 8/2012
KA24DE-T
Build thread/Blog
YouTube Channel
13.1 @ 114 - 2.3 60ft - 8/2012
KA24DE-T
Build thread/Blog
YouTube Channel
Alright, 15 it is! Next question: Supakat's diy trigger wheel install thread says to use low/normal when using stock ignition coil, however in beercandrifter's thread nismoautoxer says to always use high/inverted. I can always just set it one way and feel if the coil is getting hot, but I'd rather know off the bat what it should be. Both of the threads are in the diyautotune forum, I'd put the links but I'm on my phone so copypasta is difficult. Thanks!Matt Cramer wrote:Sorry, yes, that's a typo. Some cars were set to 15 degrees and some to 10, and we accidentally mixed the directions. Get this one idling at 15 degrees.
-
- Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
- Posts: 961
- Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:00 pm
-
- Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
- Posts: 961
- Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:00 pm
Curious as to what the difference of setting your fixed timing to 10 versus 15 would be?Matt Cramer wrote:Sorry, yes, that's a typo. Some cars were set to 15 degrees and some to 10, and we accidentally mixed the directions. Get this one idling at 15 degrees.
I currently have mine at 10 I believe on my s14 ka. Should I have set it to 15 for my fixed advance.
I thought the fixed timing does nothing. It is just a mark to shoot for when setting the trigger angle. I used 15* to set base. After configuring setting to use table, I check the timing MS is saying and what my crank is saying to verify it is correct. I changed the timing map to be 20* at idle.
It is funny cause I had my pickup on cylinder coil 4 to mess with someone because they know it all. He tried telling me I am wrong and I just had to school him. Yea, I am a Libra and we are sneaky, passive-aggressive people sometimes.
It is funny cause I had my pickup on cylinder coil 4 to mess with someone because they know it all. He tried telling me I am wrong and I just had to school him. Yea, I am a Libra and we are sneaky, passive-aggressive people sometimes.
12.96 @ 116.36 - 2.1 60ft - 11/2011
13.1 @ 114 - 2.3 60ft - 8/2012
KA24DE-T
Build thread/Blog
YouTube Channel
13.1 @ 114 - 2.3 60ft - 8/2012
KA24DE-T
Build thread/Blog
YouTube Channel
My horrible luck continues. Unknown to me, the NPT to AN fitting I was using for my turbo feed had a little mesh screen in it to act as a filter. At some point, probably when I blew the ringlands, that mesh screen stopped a bunch of metal shavings from going into my turbo. It also has prevented oil from going into my turbo for the last ~500 miles (some daily driving and a drift event). I'm driving to a drift day yesterday and hear the all to familiar sound of wheel to housing contact. Get to the event, take off my intake tube, and I'm greeted with this:
I pulled the feed line off the turbo and stuck it into a water bottle to see how much oil was going to the turbo, filled up half the water bottle within a few seconds so I knew that was fine. Looked into the fitting in the turbo and saw oil still sitting there, took that off and turned it upside down, it was almost filled to the top of the fitting with tiny pieces of metal.
I guess it's time for another turbo rebuild
I pulled the feed line off the turbo and stuck it into a water bottle to see how much oil was going to the turbo, filled up half the water bottle within a few seconds so I knew that was fine. Looked into the fitting in the turbo and saw oil still sitting there, took that off and turned it upside down, it was almost filled to the top of the fitting with tiny pieces of metal.
I guess it's time for another turbo rebuild
Small update, things will probably pick up here pretty soon. I pulled the engine a couple weeks ago to fix my leaky front covers, replace the leaking rear main seal, and replace the clutch. Clutch started slipping at my last drift event, it would hold power in a straight line but downshifting 4th to 3rd and upshifting 2nd to 3rd while drifting caused it to slip, it felt like it just wouldn't engage once I let off the pedal. Went ahead and got another Comp Clutch stage 4, it should be fine for my power goals. My leaky rear main seal might also have had something to do with it slipping. While the engine was out I re-loomed my wiring harness with that cool braided stuff that the ChaseBays harnesses have. I also got the turbo back from Precision after spending a brazillion dollars to have it rebuilt. Good news(?) is that everything was replaced, so it's essentially a brand new turbo.
This weekend's plan is to get everything back together and in the car. I still need to run new vac hose for my boost gauge and to the MAP sensor and wire my o2 into the harness, so I don't plan on having it running this weekend. I might turn the key to start working on my basemap and make sure all the sensors are working properly, but I'm in no rush to actually start the car.
Since this is a picture thread and that was a wall of text, here's a picture of the fresh turbo!
This weekend's plan is to get everything back together and in the car. I still need to run new vac hose for my boost gauge and to the MAP sensor and wire my o2 into the harness, so I don't plan on having it running this weekend. I might turn the key to start working on my basemap and make sure all the sensors are working properly, but I'm in no rush to actually start the car.
Since this is a picture thread and that was a wall of text, here's a picture of the fresh turbo!
Great work. VE Analyze is awesome. Just do a 1:1 reduction on timing from 26* to get a good base for the boost region.
12.96 @ 116.36 - 2.1 60ft - 11/2011
13.1 @ 114 - 2.3 60ft - 8/2012
KA24DE-T
Build thread/Blog
YouTube Channel
13.1 @ 114 - 2.3 60ft - 8/2012
KA24DE-T
Build thread/Blog
YouTube Channel
So 1 psi of boost should be 25*, 2 psi 24*, etc? I forget where the stock timing map ends but that's basically what I planned on doing, subtract 1* for every ~7kpa.supakat wrote:Great work. VE Analyze is awesome. Just do a 1:1 reduction on timing from 26* to get a good base for the boost region.
What about fuel? I'm plan on calibrating my wideband reading to match MS, so do I just tune with the AFR table? Hopefully the included basemap will get it running well to enough to warm up, then I can set timing and calibrate everything before I actually drive it.
Yes, do that for a real conservative tune. Also, search for different tunes on here. sdaigle has good insight on timing figures.Chris28 wrote:So 1 psi of boost should be 25*, 2 psi 24*, etc? I forget where the stock timing map ends but that's basically what I planned on doing, subtract 1* for every ~7kpa.
What about fuel? I'm plan on calibrating my wideband reading to match MS, so do I just tune with the AFR table? Hopefully the included basemap will get it running well to enough to warm up, then I can set timing and calibrate everything before I actually drive it.
As for fuel, connecting the wb to the ecu is easy. One wire. Then calibrate it in TS. The AFR map is great when using VE Analyze. Setup your map and drive or use datalogs to tweak tune. The basemap is sweet. I only tweak it a bit due to me running 15.5 idles afr's and some timing in the idle and take off but you will love it. It is simple and straightforward. As you can see from my vids, no issues and great results.
12.96 @ 116.36 - 2.1 60ft - 11/2011
13.1 @ 114 - 2.3 60ft - 8/2012
KA24DE-T
Build thread/Blog
YouTube Channel
13.1 @ 114 - 2.3 60ft - 8/2012
KA24DE-T
Build thread/Blog
YouTube Channel
Hell yeah, MS is working!
I haven't started it yet, but I calibrated most of my sensors for when everything is back together. I compared the startup map with emotactical's tune, I have a few questions. First up is fuel. Stock is on the left, Emo's is on the right, and obviously mine only goes up to 100% because it's the untouched startup map. Do his fuel cell values look like a good starting point to autotune? I'm not sure what the values stand for, but I know the max is 255.
Next up is timing. His timing map looks extremely conservative, I do remember him saying that this was an old map though. Once again his is on the right, mine's on the left. I still plan on taking off 1 degree per psi, but seeing his conservative map is making me double think that strategy haha.
Now here's the timing map my housemate used on his Miata. It looks a little more in line with what I'm aiming for, but I'd like to get some input on it.
I haven't started it yet, but I calibrated most of my sensors for when everything is back together. I compared the startup map with emotactical's tune, I have a few questions. First up is fuel. Stock is on the left, Emo's is on the right, and obviously mine only goes up to 100% because it's the untouched startup map. Do his fuel cell values look like a good starting point to autotune? I'm not sure what the values stand for, but I know the max is 255.
Next up is timing. His timing map looks extremely conservative, I do remember him saying that this was an old map though. Once again his is on the right, mine's on the left. I still plan on taking off 1 degree per psi, but seeing his conservative map is making me double think that strategy haha.
Now here's the timing map my housemate used on his Miata. It looks a little more in line with what I'm aiming for, but I'd like to get some input on it.
If you want more resolution, turn on secondary table by kPa. You can have your idle/cruise map and secondary map will be boost.
Just get the car to start and idle. Then use VE analyze to tune. Keep the stocking timing maps until you get a good base. Then setup your secondary map for boost and do the same.
Just get the car to start and idle. Then use VE analyze to tune. Keep the stocking timing maps until you get a good base. Then setup your secondary map for boost and do the same.
12.96 @ 116.36 - 2.1 60ft - 11/2011
13.1 @ 114 - 2.3 60ft - 8/2012
KA24DE-T
Build thread/Blog
YouTube Channel
13.1 @ 114 - 2.3 60ft - 8/2012
KA24DE-T
Build thread/Blog
YouTube Channel
Update!
1. I turned on secondary fuel and ignition tables, first tables are for out of boost and second tables are for boost. Timing is pretty much done, I took out 1* per 7kpa. I have Beercandrifter's tune, he took out a lot more timing than I did, so I'll probably make my values look more similar to his so I know they are good.
2. It runs! I have a few questions though.
After the 2nd or 3rd time I hooked up my laptop, I got a tachometer input conflict error. I started looking through my settings, even though I haven't messed with the original tune supplied with the PNP my trigger angle offset and spark output pin were different than the picture shown in the PNP manual. In the manual it has trigger angle offset as 120*, mine was *72. My spark output in is JS10, the picture in the manual shows it at D14. Beercan's tune was at JS10 as well, not sure what it means. It could also be the fact that the manual has a picture of a single cam in the background and the settings are for that. Either way, I got the error to go away by turning off the tacho output. Weird thing is that when it started I got a tach signal.
In order to get it to start I had to set the fixed timing to 20*. My distributor is set to 20* since that's what the stock ECU runs, so that explains why it started at that timing setting. It was too dark to find a timing light so I'm not sure exactly where my timing is, so I'll do that tomorrow.
TL;DR. It runs but I have a tacho config issue. Here's my MSQ.
https://docs.google.com/a/ncsu.edu/file ... JuM2s/edit
1. I turned on secondary fuel and ignition tables, first tables are for out of boost and second tables are for boost. Timing is pretty much done, I took out 1* per 7kpa. I have Beercandrifter's tune, he took out a lot more timing than I did, so I'll probably make my values look more similar to his so I know they are good.
2. It runs! I have a few questions though.
After the 2nd or 3rd time I hooked up my laptop, I got a tachometer input conflict error. I started looking through my settings, even though I haven't messed with the original tune supplied with the PNP my trigger angle offset and spark output pin were different than the picture shown in the PNP manual. In the manual it has trigger angle offset as 120*, mine was *72. My spark output in is JS10, the picture in the manual shows it at D14. Beercan's tune was at JS10 as well, not sure what it means. It could also be the fact that the manual has a picture of a single cam in the background and the settings are for that. Either way, I got the error to go away by turning off the tacho output. Weird thing is that when it started I got a tach signal.
In order to get it to start I had to set the fixed timing to 20*. My distributor is set to 20* since that's what the stock ECU runs, so that explains why it started at that timing setting. It was too dark to find a timing light so I'm not sure exactly where my timing is, so I'll do that tomorrow.
TL;DR. It runs but I have a tacho config issue. Here's my MSQ.
https://docs.google.com/a/ncsu.edu/file ... JuM2s/edit
I found a thread on the msextra forums, someone with an e30 was having the same issue. Switched to a fully charged battery and the issue went away. I'll put a charger on the battery tomorrow and see what happens.
Hooked up jumper cables, error message went away. It runs super rich, wideband isn't hooked up so I don't know exactly what the AFRs are but I know it's rich. I've set my REQ fuel to 550cc injectors, so when I'm tuning idle AFR's I should only adjust the map, correct?
Sorry for all the little questions, I want to make sure I'm doing everything correctly.
Hooked up jumper cables, error message went away. It runs super rich, wideband isn't hooked up so I don't know exactly what the AFRs are but I know it's rich. I've set my REQ fuel to 550cc injectors, so when I'm tuning idle AFR's I should only adjust the map, correct?
Sorry for all the little questions, I want to make sure I'm doing everything correctly.
Last edited by Chris28 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.