HI-COMP KA24DE W/12MM HEADSTUDS E85

This is for all those PICTURE THREADS ONLY. Motor installs, product writeups, showing off your car, put the thread in here.
adamky
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Post by adamky »

Jason M wrote:Compression was 150psi before starting & 175-180psi after running it. I excpeted a little more cranking pressure then that but all the cylinders are even. & i'm sure it will get better once I run the engine a little longer. I've got my JWT 272's (224* deg's duration @ .050") installed 5* adv int, & the ex is 2.5 deg adv. I excpect more cranking compression when I switch to the smaller 240-248 cams that i'm planning to run.
Yes, the cam swap will definitely change the compression #s. I had over 200 psi on a stock S14 block with stock 232/232 cams. After installing the JWT S1 cams, I believe it was around 170. You might not see as much of a change going to the 240/248 though. The 232/232 cams give the highest dynamic compression of any of the KA cams.

Jason M wrote:I've got my intake valves at .010-.012" cold & the exhaust is @ .012-.013 cold. I've never run them that tight before. I usually run them at .013-.014 int, & .014-.015 ex... I'm going to re-check th valves tonight & probably loosen up the ex to atleast .013". Any recommendations?
I run .010-.012 intake and exhaust. No issues.
Last edited by adamky on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Wiseco/Eagle, JWT S1 cams, BC valve springs, PT5857, ID1700 injectors, SR20DET ECU w/ Nismotronic, COP conversion with LS ignition coils, etc, etc...
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Jason M
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Post by Jason M »

I just tested some OEM cams that I've had lying around & I'm questioning the results. I could not get the proper angle (dial indicator should be perpendicular to the lifter) on the bucket/shim with the new dial indicator setup. I need to make an extender tip tomorrow...
I don't think I have the 240-248 cam combo.

Compression test (on a cold engine without seated rings) is up to 198psi & the cam wizard spit out these questionable results. Both cams were 2.5* advanced for a starting point.
Your cam has an Overlap of -48.00 degrees
Intake Duration of 190.00 degrees.
The Exhaust Duration is 202.00 degrees.
The Inlet Cam has an Installed Centerline of 119.00 degrees ATDC.
The exhaust cam has an Installed Centerline of 125.00 degrees BTDC.
LSA 122*
Measured lift: .335" lift intake, & .340" lift exhaust.
Jason M
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Post by Jason M »

Here are the results of my latest test.
Camshaft Calculations - Lobe Center / Duration
Your 240/248 has an Overlap of -40.00 degrees and has in Intake Duration of 198.00 degrees. The Exhaust Duration is 205.00 degrees. Your Lobe Separation Angle is 120.75 degrees. The Inlet Cam has an Installed Centerline of 117.00 degrees ATDC. The exhaust cam has an Installed Centerline of 124.50 degrees BTDC.

I made up an extended tip for my dial indicator to get a more accurate reading of valve lift. I cross threaded a 3mm bolt into the 4-48 threads of a cheap 0-1" dial indicator and ground it to clearance the camshaft with a bench grinder. Quick & dirty, I know... It was a last minute solution. I should of ordered some extended tips for my diakl indicators weeks ago but never got around to it.

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Here's my modified crank dampener with a ledge to hold my digital inclinometer.
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Jason M
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Post by Jason M »

jholman05 wrote:I see your problem now that you have posted a picture of your bay and I can see how your turbo is mounted (in my head I was still picturing a T2 style setup like mine)

Either way where is this line going? This is the one I have my coolant returning into after the turbo. It runs pretty level with a slight up hill slope from the turbo to the neck there. I'll try to get some pictures of my setup whenever I get the engine back from the machine shop.
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That hose is just re-routed back to the timing cover. IIRC It was where the throttle body warmer hose used to connect to before I bypassed/deleted it.
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Post by NateDogg »

I hope you put a radius on the lip of the combustion chamber. Sharp edges cause hot spots and detonation.
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Jason M
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Post by Jason M »

NateDogg wrote:I hope you put a radius on the lip of the combustion chamber. Sharp edges cause hot spots and detonation.
I chamfered all of the combustion chambers by hand. I also smoothed out the threads around the sprak plug area. I'm more worried about pre-ignition then detonation. I'm going to start tuning with NGK bkr8's, read the plugs, then adjust the heat range from there. 25-30psi with 11:1+ compression = a lot of heat!

I was tempted to remove the squish pads and make the combustion chamber look like a Honda cylinder head, but decided to try it out the way it is & retain a little extra compression. After a ton of digging around on the iterweb, I did run across a few opinions that removing the squish area on the ka reduces chances of detonation, & that squish is better suited towards an NA engine.
Jason M
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Post by Jason M »

I tested/degreed multiple oem camshafts today. I came to the conclusion that all of my cam sets are the 232/240 combo's.

The 232's about .335 lift @ .010" valve lash.
240's have about .350" lift at .010" valve lash
232's have 198-199 deg's duration @ .0.50"
240's have 206-207 deg's duration @ .050"
My JWT s1's measure out to 224 deg's duration @ .050" & .390 lift

I ended up choosing a 240/240 combo, Intake camshaft is 4 teeth back with a JWT cam shaft gear fully advanced 10 deg's, as a baseline starting point. Exhaust camshaft is 2.5 deg's advanced. I will fine tune the camshaft timing based off of a combination of real world results (datalogs) & the dyno.

My intake valve opening (IVO) is 15 deg's ATDC, IVC is 41 deg's ABDC, Exhaust valve opening is 48 deg's BBDC, EVC is 21 BTDC.
Here is what the camshaft calculator spit out...
"Your 240/240 has an Overlap of -36.00 degrees and has in Intake Duration of 206.00 degrees. The Exhaust Duration is 207.00 degrees. Your Lobe Separation Angle is 121.25 degrees. The Inlet Cam has an Installed Centerline of 118.00 degrees ATDC. The exhaust cam has an Installed Centerline of 124.50 degrees BTDC.
wannabethestig
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Post by wannabethestig »

I've read the same thing about removing squish pads. What are you thinking you hp/tq curve are gonna look like?

I agree with your text. My guess... huge torque early, probably 50-75 higher than peak hp which i think will be @ 5500 or so. Throttle modulation between 3500-6000 will be key to good times at the track. Gearing will really matter because i think it will fall off between 6-7k. Can you hit 70 in 2nd?

To move peak power to the right i would 1st retard the exhaust 2.5° and test. Then advance intake 2.5° and repeat... or switch in your 272's and shim them looser to get a little more room to play with.
My wife "haven't you spent enough time and money on that car yet?" my answer "no"

The build thread-> viewtopic.php?t=58421&highlight=
Jason M
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Post by Jason M »

With oem rear gears, and my 275/35/15's I'm at 66mph @7500rpm.
I have a 3.539 final drive that let me touch 76mph @ 7500, & 73mph @ 7200. That final drive is why I'm trying to dial in bottom end & midrange torque. I will swap in a 3.69 gear set if the 3.54 is too tall. I may have two different diff's setup, i could swap diff's depending on course layout.
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Post by sdaigle240 »

youre out of control.... i love it.
airman wrote:I'm all about spreadsheets. Bitches love spreadsheets.
schmauster920 wrote:I shall cast my own pistons in the sands of time, then forge them in the depths of hell.. as funds allow
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hy35 18psi Build Thread: viewtopic.php?t=38784
RIP MJL best friend of 20 years and the man who showed me 240s
Jason M
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Post by Jason M »

I have not updated this thread in awhile. I wore myself down a little trying to get my car ready for the racing season.

I'm very optimistic about the direction my car is headed. The car set the 4th fastest time of the event, which was a huge surprise, considering that I had to hack together a tune & my suspension setup just to make it out to the race. My Hoosiers are also 3 years old, and barely even have grooves left.

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Here are my BK7RE's. I'm going to run a plug one step colder, I have some iridium BKR8's on the way. Notice the color change at the ground strap. Thats optimal, but I need to play it on the safe side. Once I turn up the boost, it may be too hot of a plug.

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4 port Mac Solenoid & 4 Chanell EGT module.
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Here is how my waste gate is plumbed. In it's defualt state, it can run off the wastegate spring for safety, (in case the solenoid fails).
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5.8 lb spring, 38mm Tial wastegate, Mac 4-port Solenoid. Here is one of my first test Datalog's of a 3rd gear pull with 45% duty cyclce.
I reach only 6.8psi & 3500 rpm & reach my target of 12lbs by 4500 rpm. Nothing to be proud of, just showing how un tuned my car was for the last race... I was using a open loop control strategy with a 3d map consisting of, RPM vs TPS.
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I think I can optimize spool up in any one gear, but not for all gears with my open loop setup. I could ditch my soft wastegate spring setup to help reach my target quicker, and prevent the wastegate from cracking open, but I choose the 4 port solenoid soft spring setup for a reason. I want the ultimate throttle modulation which means I may need 5 lbs of boost at 6k+ rpm and part throttle. I'm going to work on a closed Loop control strategy that should optimize spool & transitional response. I wish my car was liscensed for the street. Tuining is a PITA!

Mocking up my new dash... It's my GalaxyS2 using an app called ShawdowDash connected via bluetooth to my MS3 ECU. It has GPS track mapping, and full datalogging capabilites. I'm going to order the 10hz external GPS module for the next race so I can take advantgae of the track mapping functions. It will be nice to overlay laps with my co-driver to compare driving styles. THe GPS sample rate on my Galaxy2 is super slow & basically worthless except for steady state MPH.
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Splitter Cam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loozlXJrkUw
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Post by rebeltshead »

Really loving this build....

I'm all eyes and ears :D
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Post by wannabethestig »

You need to update with the dyno sheet/issues/logs...
My wife "haven't you spent enough time and money on that car yet?" my answer "no"

The build thread-> viewtopic.php?t=58421&highlight=
Jason M
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Post by Jason M »

Anybody want to guess what I made at 10psi?

-DynoDynamics Dyno
-11.5:1 comp
-GTX3071 .63 a/r ex housing, JGS log Mani.
-E85
-Conservative ign timing
-no intercooler
-175F IAT's


I ended up with a multitude of problems, so I cut the tuning session short. I made more power @ 10psi then I did @ 15psi, most likely becuase of the misfires. The engine has a really flat tone to it while in boost, but runs really good at idle & while cruising. I think the issue is ign related. I've had nothing but problems ever since I swapped in my ls2 coils.
Short list of problems...
-misfire under load
-engine would not get up to operasting temp & stay there. It wanted to hang out around 130F.
-boost control system was not consistent, and not properly responding to duty cycle changes.
-egt probes are not reading correctly

We where starting the pulls at 2k rpm, but I don't think it was loading the engine correctly <4k rpm.
Jason M
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Post by Jason M »

These are nothing to be proud of, but here they are anyways. I was battling a misfire, cold engine temps, and boost control issues causing late spool. ignition timing was super conservative, and a/f ratios were never dialed in. I'm optimistic that 10 psi will net me 300 rwhp, and much more torque down low once everything is dialed in.

I'm running two S13 exhaust cams with 207 deg's duration @ .050". Intake opening @15 ATDC, and closing @ 42 ABDC.
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DC47A
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Post by DC47A »

Very nice build! What wheels are those on the car, if you don't mind me asking?
Jason M
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Post by Jason M »

15x10 Spinwerkes
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Re:

Post by NateDogg »

Jason M wrote:Anybody want to guess what I made at 10psi?

-DynoDynamics Dyno
-11.5:1 comp
-GTX3071 .63 a/r ex housing, JGS log Mani.
-E85
-Conservative ign timing
-no intercooler
-175F IAT's


I ended up with a multitude of problems, so I cut the tuning session short. I made more power @ 10psi then I did @ 15psi, most likely becuase of the misfires. The engine has a really flat tone to it while in boost, but runs really good at idle & while cruising. I think the issue is ign related. I've had nothing but problems ever since I swapped in my ls2 coils.
Short list of problems...
-misfire under load
-engine would not get up to operasting temp & stay there. It wanted to hang out around 130F.
-boost control system was not consistent, and not properly responding to duty cycle changes.
-egt probes are not reading correctly

We where starting the pulls at 2k rpm, but I don't think it was loading the engine correctly <4k rpm.
Whats your AFR throughout the pull? Do you have a wideband set to e85 mode?
Spool-up, full boost, etc.
'91 S13
Built, balanced KA-T
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Re: HI-COMP KA24DE W/12MM HEADSTUDS E85

Post by Marcus »

Wow I missed this build. Awesome work, awesome perfectionism, awesome abilities, just awesome.

What brand are those ID1000's grommet adapters to the Intake "bushings" that you have there? I could use a set.
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Re: HI-COMP KA24DE W/12MM HEADSTUDS E85

Post by NateDogg »

What are you doing for oil pan/oil control?
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Re: HI-COMP KA24DE W/12MM HEADSTUDS E85

Post by S14wayz »

everything's looking really good. What oil cooler is that??
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My S14 Build Thread
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Re: HI-COMP KA24DE W/12MM HEADSTUDS E85

Post by siamhatch »

awesome build
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Re: HI-COMP KA24DE W/12MM HEADSTUDS E85

Post by RHS13Doug »

Nothing looks better than a freshly machined engine haha. Keep at it dude!
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Re: HI-COMP KA24DE W/12MM HEADSTUDS E85

Post by mc240sx »

Can anyone tell me how or where to get 12mm L19/H11 head studs for a ka24de?
KA24det
wiseco 10.5:1
FIC 2150's on E85
Crower con rods
Crower 280 cams
JWT cam gears
Clevite bearings
Cosworth HG
625+ 11mm head studs
Scunion Fabrication Exh. & Intake manifold
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Re: HI-COMP KA24DE W/12MM HEADSTUDS E85

Post by smbonn2005 »

They aren't L19, they are RB26DETT ARP2000 head studs
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Re: HI-COMP KA24DE W/12MM HEADSTUDS E85

Post by Jason M »

^^^ They are not RB26 studs, they are from a 2.0 liter pinto. I'm sure the pn# was listed earlier in the thread.

Finally dyno tested this engine configuration. The best run was 442rwhp, 396tq. In the end we were averaging 425ho & 370 tq.

I sprayed Ethanol pre throttle body using a water meth, AEM progressive controller setup. Unfortunately & surprisingly we did not pick up any pwr from pre throttle body injection. I think I need to do some more testing, and make some changes.

I'm boost creeping to 25psi with my JWT 272's (224* @ .050") intake advanced 10*, exhaust 2.5*, GTX3071 with JGS log and tial 38mm WG... We tuned around the boost creep, and cut things short. My individual cyl knock feedback was reporting lots of noise on cyl#2 & #3, not sure if it is normal noise or det, lots of testing needed to dial in the knock feedback system...


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Re: HI-COMP KA24DE W/12MM HEADSTUDS E85

Post by hotbox240 »

What's the benefit of using ethanol over water/meth? Just price? Solid numbers kinda thinking of switching to a smaller turbo like this...sick of my lag monster.
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Re: HI-COMP KA24DE W/12MM HEADSTUDS E85

Post by shattabigz »

Nice build
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Re: HI-COMP KA24DE W/12MM HEADSTUDS E85

Post by marsworld »

was wondering if you can update the pictures on the first page trying to visualize how to do my head studs and what head studs to buy
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