HI-COMP KA24DE W/12MM HEADSTUDS E85
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- Dreams of owning a 240!
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:36 pm
- Location: Bonney Lake, Wa
HI-COMP KA24DE W/12MM HEADSTUDS E85
Hello all! I dont post on this forum often, but I've always wanted to start a ka24de build thread soooo.... I think it's about time I share my build with everyone. I'll start off with some teaser shots before I get into some lower quality cell phone shots of the machine work.
Almost a flat top... Off the shelf 11:1 JE's
Block is zero decked
It's always good to have good friends with machine shops...
Victom number one!
Tooling to machine head, to accept the much larger 12mm head studs, and a 12pt 14mm Snap on 3/8 drive shallow socket that measures out to .765". The OEM bore between the lifters is approx .725".
I reamed out all ten holes in the cylinder head to .500", and opened up the headbolt tooling hole to .765", with an .750" end mill, and reamed them to size, with a .765" ream.
Ended up turning down & polishing the Snap on 14mm 12pt socket down to .750"...
Drilling & tapping the holes in the block. Took me almost two hours to clamp down, & sqaure up the block. Much of the time was spent measuring out the hole spacing of the cylinder head bolts. I used a pin that was a couple thousandths smaller then the headbolt holes, along with the DRO on the mill to determine the spacing & square up the block.
Starting the 12x1.75mm tap in the mill ensures a perfectly straight start every time. I ran the tap down with the mill most of the way, then finished them off by hand, using a really good quality tapping fluid.
Counter sunk the threads in the block .200" to prevent distorting of the block's surface.
The cylinder head slid on perfectly the first time!!!
FYI, the cometic and felpro headgasket bolt holes, measure out to 12.25mm's and slide over perfectly, but the Cosworth's head bolt holes measured out only a couple thousandths bigger then the 12mm arps. I don't want the gasket to touch the studs, so I bought a high quality brand new, super sharp 1/2" ream to open them up a little. Not sure that it's really necessary though???
Any thoughts on opening up the oiling holes a little more in the head??? The oil restrictor jet in the block is about .100", so the area of the oem oil feed channel with 12mm studs is still 10 times bigger then the restrictor...
The OEM restrictor is about .100" diameter or has an area of .0079" s.i.
10mm arp stud in a .485 hole = .06833 (S.I.) Oil feed hole
12mm arp stud in a .500 hole = .02652 (S.I.)
10mm arp stud in a .442 hole = .03702 (S.I.) Oil transfer passage through the stud hole, & around the stud, middle bolt, feeds the opposite side camshaft front bearing journal, & I think the timing chain idler sprocket.
With a .0079 restrictor feeding the head does it really matter if the oil feed for the head is 10 times or 20 times the size of the restrictor?
My thoughts were that I should at the least open up the two middle holes to equal .03702 or whatever the oil feed passage is to the camshaft journal, and idler sprocket.
In the end I opened up the middle two head stud holes to .531", that should allow plenty of oil flow.
Almost a flat top... Off the shelf 11:1 JE's
Block is zero decked
It's always good to have good friends with machine shops...
Victom number one!
Tooling to machine head, to accept the much larger 12mm head studs, and a 12pt 14mm Snap on 3/8 drive shallow socket that measures out to .765". The OEM bore between the lifters is approx .725".
I reamed out all ten holes in the cylinder head to .500", and opened up the headbolt tooling hole to .765", with an .750" end mill, and reamed them to size, with a .765" ream.
Ended up turning down & polishing the Snap on 14mm 12pt socket down to .750"...
Drilling & tapping the holes in the block. Took me almost two hours to clamp down, & sqaure up the block. Much of the time was spent measuring out the hole spacing of the cylinder head bolts. I used a pin that was a couple thousandths smaller then the headbolt holes, along with the DRO on the mill to determine the spacing & square up the block.
Starting the 12x1.75mm tap in the mill ensures a perfectly straight start every time. I ran the tap down with the mill most of the way, then finished them off by hand, using a really good quality tapping fluid.
Counter sunk the threads in the block .200" to prevent distorting of the block's surface.
The cylinder head slid on perfectly the first time!!!
FYI, the cometic and felpro headgasket bolt holes, measure out to 12.25mm's and slide over perfectly, but the Cosworth's head bolt holes measured out only a couple thousandths bigger then the 12mm arps. I don't want the gasket to touch the studs, so I bought a high quality brand new, super sharp 1/2" ream to open them up a little. Not sure that it's really necessary though???
Any thoughts on opening up the oiling holes a little more in the head??? The oil restrictor jet in the block is about .100", so the area of the oem oil feed channel with 12mm studs is still 10 times bigger then the restrictor...
The OEM restrictor is about .100" diameter or has an area of .0079" s.i.
10mm arp stud in a .485 hole = .06833 (S.I.) Oil feed hole
12mm arp stud in a .500 hole = .02652 (S.I.)
10mm arp stud in a .442 hole = .03702 (S.I.) Oil transfer passage through the stud hole, & around the stud, middle bolt, feeds the opposite side camshaft front bearing journal, & I think the timing chain idler sprocket.
With a .0079 restrictor feeding the head does it really matter if the oil feed for the head is 10 times or 20 times the size of the restrictor?
My thoughts were that I should at the least open up the two middle holes to equal .03702 or whatever the oil feed passage is to the camshaft journal, and idler sprocket.
In the end I opened up the middle two head stud holes to .531", that should allow plenty of oil flow.
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- Dreams of owning a 240!
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:36 pm
- Location: Bonney Lake, Wa
Resurfaced the cylinder head with the front timing cover.
Bored and hone the block .0045" bigger then the 11:1 JE 2618 series pistons.
Resurfaced the block with the front timing cover.
Custom dowel pins.
port mathcing the water pump inlet to the block.
Port matching the intake & coolant outlet of the cylinder head to the intake manifold. Not shown is the custom dowel pins to align the manifol to the cyl head.
Bored and hone the block .0045" bigger then the 11:1 JE 2618 series pistons.
Resurfaced the block with the front timing cover.
Custom dowel pins.
port mathcing the water pump inlet to the block.
Port matching the intake & coolant outlet of the cylinder head to the intake manifold. Not shown is the custom dowel pins to align the manifol to the cyl head.
Last edited by Jason M on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Dreams of owning a 240!
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:36 pm
- Location: Bonney Lake, Wa
Finially bit the bullit and purchased some upgraded valve springs. Autcrossing with 275/35/15's dictates over reving my engine to 7700rpm's at 20psi + boost. I've been worried about not having enough seat pressure, and valve float.
The head is almost together...
Modified/backcut Supertech intake valve vs OEM valve. We backcut the valve at a 30* angle all the way to the edge of the valve seat contact point on the face of the valve. Hopefully this will help with low lift flow.
Backcut supercut valve un modified Supertech valve. They come with a slight backcut right out of the box...
Unshrouded the Intakes all the way out to the edge of the headgasket, blended in the valve seat to the throat, & removed all casting flaws. All intakes are a full raduis valve cut after thoating each port with a 70* throating tool.
Unshrouded the exhuast valves to the edge of the gasket, blended in the seats to the throat, & removed all casting flaws. 4 angle exhaust valve job. The 4th angle is a 70* throat cut. We did not back cut the exhasut valves.
Very lite port/gasket match...
The head is almost together...
Modified/backcut Supertech intake valve vs OEM valve. We backcut the valve at a 30* angle all the way to the edge of the valve seat contact point on the face of the valve. Hopefully this will help with low lift flow.
Backcut supercut valve un modified Supertech valve. They come with a slight backcut right out of the box...
Unshrouded the Intakes all the way out to the edge of the headgasket, blended in the valve seat to the throat, & removed all casting flaws. All intakes are a full raduis valve cut after thoating each port with a 70* throating tool.
Unshrouded the exhuast valves to the edge of the gasket, blended in the seats to the throat, & removed all casting flaws. 4 angle exhaust valve job. The 4th angle is a 70* throat cut. We did not back cut the exhasut valves.
Very lite port/gasket match...
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- Dreams of owning a 240!
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:36 pm
- Location: Bonney Lake, Wa
Here is the reason I'm building a new engine...
A Supertech wrist pin broke in half, causing the snap ring to pop out, which basically destroyed my block, (unless I decide to go .040" over with it, and use it as a back up engine).
It looks like a text book fatigue failure (in my novice opinion), it failed from the outside, inward. You can see the shiny smooth ring on the outside, and the facture/failure from when the pin sheared in half when there was not enough metal left to handle the forces.
This engine is sits on the rev limiter hard at 7500-7600 rpms with my gearing/tire combo at the autocross (i've had it as high as 7800rpms). I suspect that overeving the engine did not help the situation. The piston speed of ka24de is quite high at 7800rpms. That said, a quick google search shows several Supertech/Ka24de wrist pin failures.
A Supertech wrist pin broke in half, causing the snap ring to pop out, which basically destroyed my block, (unless I decide to go .040" over with it, and use it as a back up engine).
It looks like a text book fatigue failure (in my novice opinion), it failed from the outside, inward. You can see the shiny smooth ring on the outside, and the facture/failure from when the pin sheared in half when there was not enough metal left to handle the forces.
This engine is sits on the rev limiter hard at 7500-7600 rpms with my gearing/tire combo at the autocross (i've had it as high as 7800rpms). I suspect that overeving the engine did not help the situation. The piston speed of ka24de is quite high at 7800rpms. That said, a quick google search shows several Supertech/Ka24de wrist pin failures.
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- Driving Mom's Station Wagon
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- Location: wa state
- schmauster920
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Everything looks great, its cool that you can machine your block yourself.
Ive been doing piston homework lately and as you said the supertech wrist pin failures are too common. You can also get tool steel wrist pins.. After all these failures it seems like they should come standard.
In at least one other scenario the broken wrist pins were caused by pre ignition or detonation that was inaudible to the naked ear, putting load on the wrist pins. Might want to check your tune.
The rest of the piston seems pretty stout but these numerous identical failures and no changes from supertech says they dont really care about the end user. Supposedly they offered a few people new sets of pistons, but those pistons cost them a motor so why machine a new block to have it happen again? lol
Ive been doing piston homework lately and as you said the supertech wrist pin failures are too common. You can also get tool steel wrist pins.. After all these failures it seems like they should come standard.
In at least one other scenario the broken wrist pins were caused by pre ignition or detonation that was inaudible to the naked ear, putting load on the wrist pins. Might want to check your tune.
The rest of the piston seems pretty stout but these numerous identical failures and no changes from supertech says they dont really care about the end user. Supposedly they offered a few people new sets of pistons, but those pistons cost them a motor so why machine a new block to have it happen again? lol
D21, Built KA24DE, 740cc, T4, WeatherGuard Tool Box, Tial 40mm, Megasquirt 3 in progress
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Is this build on nissanroadracing too? Could of swore ive seen those pics before. Everything is looking great, definitely putting some love into it.
Last edited by wannabethestig on Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
My wife "haven't you spent enough time and money on that car yet?" my answer "no"
The build thread-> viewtopic.php?t=58421&highlight=
The build thread-> viewtopic.php?t=58421&highlight=
- schmauster920
- Belongs To The TOP CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS!
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- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:25 pm
- Location: CA
Yeah this was a deal breaker for me, especially since you dont really even save that much $$ over the big name pistons.
Thank you for posting this up for the masses. I was surprised that there havent been any posts about this problem on this website considering its for turbo KAs
Maybe I just havent seen any posted up but then again im on this website way too much lol
Thank you for posting this up for the masses. I was surprised that there havent been any posts about this problem on this website considering its for turbo KAs
Maybe I just havent seen any posted up but then again im on this website way too much lol
D21, Built KA24DE, 740cc, T4, WeatherGuard Tool Box, Tial 40mm, Megasquirt 3 in progress
I love pics of machining in progress. Everything looks great man.
Last edited by adamky on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wiseco/Eagle, JWT S1 cams, BC valve springs, PT5857, ID1700 injectors, SR20DET ECU w/ Nismotronic, COP conversion with LS ignition coils, etc, etc...
--> YouTube channel --> my build thread
--> YouTube channel --> my build thread
- superDorifto
- Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
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- Dreams of owning a 240!
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:36 pm
- Location: Bonney Lake, Wa
From what I've gathered researching ethonal and e85, it is very forgiving stuff. In order to take full advantage of e85, higher compression ratios should be used. I should end up with a broader torque band and hopefully a more responsive engine with quicker spool up.
I'm also going to try out a no intercooler setup. E85 has a high latent heat of evaporation. I'm going to do some testing with extra injectors placed just downstream of the turbo.
Lots of boosted "V8 guys" are running E85, with up to 13:1 compression, quite a few of them are also not running intercoolers.
I'm also going to try out a no intercooler setup. E85 has a high latent heat of evaporation. I'm going to do some testing with extra injectors placed just downstream of the turbo.
Lots of boosted "V8 guys" are running E85, with up to 13:1 compression, quite a few of them are also not running intercoolers.
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- Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
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Keep up the good work. Very curious as to what kind of power this thing will push out. This would be what I would do if money or free/cheap access to a machine shop were available. You look to be building a monster
2012 - S14 KA, Nismotronic, GTi-R T28 12psi, Meth, PSM HMIC, DW550cc, N62, S15 HLSD, Spec 3, Fidanza = 12.4 @ 110
2013 - 9.0 Wiseco/Manley, Nismotronic, GT2876R 23psi, Meth, PSM HMIC, 850cc, N62, S15 HLSD, Z32 Spec 3, D21 Fidanza = ??.? @ ??? 440whp/380wtq
YouTube Channel -> http://goo.gl/MZ5EE
- R34SR
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I have a question in regard to your supertech pin failure, did you install the pistons in the proper direction, because supertechs pistons have a offcenter bore for the wristpins so their direction matters when installing them. if you install them in any direction the wristpins will see ridiculous fatigue and snap just like that. Its unfortunate that supertech does not mention this in the documentation sent with the pistons, but mic them yourself and you will see.
MEGASQUIRT 2 PNP
AEM IGN1A COILS
EAGLE-ARP-SUPERTECH 9:1 KA24DE
BW S257 SX-E .78AR
ID1050x Injectors
Full Race twin scroll manifold
ISIS FMIC
Mazworx z32 tranny swap
CTS V CALIPERS
STANCE LX+ Coilovers
J30 LSD
AME FS01 WHEELS 18X9 +25
AEM IGN1A COILS
EAGLE-ARP-SUPERTECH 9:1 KA24DE
BW S257 SX-E .78AR
ID1050x Injectors
Full Race twin scroll manifold
ISIS FMIC
Mazworx z32 tranny swap
CTS V CALIPERS
STANCE LX+ Coilovers
J30 LSD
AME FS01 WHEELS 18X9 +25
TinyT wrote:for the love of god, post your setup, do you really think you can get an answer after saying HI ME CAR HAS TURBO NOW BUT I CANT BWAAA PSHH WITH IT WHATS WRONG
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- Dreams of owning a 240!
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:36 pm
- Location: Bonney Lake, Wa
R34SR wrote:I have a question in regard to your supertech pin failure, did you install the pistons in the proper direction, because supertechs pistons have a offcenter bore for the wristpins so their direction matters when installing them. if you install them in any direction the wristpins will see ridiculous fatigue and snap just like that. Its unfortunate that supertech does not mention this in the documentation sent with the pistons, but mic them yourself and you will see.
Very good question. The honest awnser is that It's been 5 years since I assembled that engine, I'm not certain. However, I seem to recall something about them being offset. Most pistons have a dimple to mark their orentation. I don't think Supertech's have any markings. I double checked the orentation of the piston, and based off of witness marks on the piston & the block, the short side of the piston was towards the intake manifold. According to a quick internet search it was installed correctly.
viewtopic.php?t=51066&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Last edited by Jason M on Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Dreams of owning a 240!
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:36 pm
- Location: Bonney Lake, Wa
I've had this crankshaft scraper & windage tray sitting around for the last 6-7 years, Finally decided to use it. It's one of crankshaftscrapers.com's ealry creations for the KA.
Drilled & tapped the oil filter housing with a 3/8" npt thread for a GM CLT temp sensor so I can start datalogging oil temp.
Drilled & tapped the oil filter housing with a 3/8" npt thread for a GM CLT temp sensor so I can start datalogging oil temp.
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- Dreams of owning a 240!
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- aaronlee97
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- Dreams of owning a 240!
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:36 pm
- Location: Bonney Lake, Wa
Thought I would post up some pic's of the rest of the car.
Car needs paint...
I fabricated the RLCA'S, strut housings, toe & traction rods, spherical housing housings.
These were a ton of work, all made by hand on a lathe.
I have a home jobber powder coater...
Fuel cell...
Pressed fit AN fitting.
Old setup
Car needs paint...
I fabricated the RLCA'S, strut housings, toe & traction rods, spherical housing housings.
These were a ton of work, all made by hand on a lathe.
I have a home jobber powder coater...
Fuel cell...
Pressed fit AN fitting.
Old setup
Last edited by Jason M on Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- 240sx Wannabe
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- Location: Tampa/Colorado Springs/AFG
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- Dreams of owning a 240!
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:36 pm
- Location: Bonney Lake, Wa
I've been folliwing your build for awhile now... I'm encouraged by your results. We have a very similar setup. I'm still running an old t3/t04e 57 trim comp, with .63 a/r ex. I can't make up my mind on turbo sizing, so I'm just going to wait a little longer & sit on the sidelines to see how the EFR vs GTX thing works out before I upgrade.turboholic wrote:Im also running 11:1 je pistons. You are going to love the difference.
Impressive build.
Would you care to send me your ignition map? Is you setup knock limited or were you able to reach MBT on the dyno?
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- 240sx Wannabe
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I will send you the ignition map.
Im not a tuning expert but it appeared we reached the MBT without running into any knock issues. Have to thank e85 for that.
Im currently limited by my fuel pump. Got close to maxing it out at only 22psi.
Im not a tuning expert but it appeared we reached the MBT without running into any knock issues. Have to thank e85 for that.
Im currently limited by my fuel pump. Got close to maxing it out at only 22psi.
S14 11:1 boosted
05 RX8 LS1 build in progress
93 RX7- 1.3L TT
93 RX7- 6Liter
05 RX8 LS1 build in progress
93 RX7- 1.3L TT
93 RX7- 6Liter
Wow, nice build.
Wiseco/Eagle, JWT S1 cams, BC valve springs, PT5857, ID1700 injectors, SR20DET ECU w/ Nismotronic, COP conversion with LS ignition coils, etc, etc...
--> YouTube channel --> my build thread
--> YouTube channel --> my build thread
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- Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
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- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:32 pm
- Location: Cincinnati
Loving this entire car. Keep us up to date with pics.
2012 - S14 KA, Nismotronic, GTi-R T28 12psi, Meth, PSM HMIC, DW550cc, N62, S15 HLSD, Spec 3, Fidanza = 12.4 @ 110
2013 - 9.0 Wiseco/Manley, Nismotronic, GT2876R 23psi, Meth, PSM HMIC, 850cc, N62, S15 HLSD, Z32 Spec 3, D21 Fidanza = ??.? @ ??? 440whp/380wtq
YouTube Channel -> http://goo.gl/MZ5EE
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- Knows Some Stuff About 240's!
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Two things.... are some of the "track" pics at bremerton? And... would you consider doing some boost to pre-turbo ratio logs?
I have been thinking of tapping into my manifold to get the pressures to assist in the cam selection and determining optimal timing.
I have been thinking of tapping into my manifold to get the pressures to assist in the cam selection and determining optimal timing.
My wife "haven't you spent enough time and money on that car yet?" my answer "no"
The build thread-> viewtopic.php?t=58421&highlight=
The build thread-> viewtopic.php?t=58421&highlight=