Re: airman's build - 9/6 video time

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Re: airman's 600hp strip/street rocket build thread

Post by supakat »

Setting up MS3 is the same but actually easier than MS2. I set one up already on a ka. I actually have to go back and redo this again since the project was written over by someone. After I get it running again, I am going to tune his setup.
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Re: airman's 600hp strip/street rocket build thread

Post by airman »

So supa, let me run this by you:

I followed the instructions on the set up of the DIY trigger wheel and followed that with the coil-on-plug instructions. I need to make sure I have everything right for the LS2 truck coils (dwell/allthat/etc?). I don't want to burn them up! The instructions on the 240sx page are for wasted spark setups and not COP, though.

I plugged in my values for engine displacement and injector size. I'm pretty sure when I did that with my MSPNP2 I was still far off on my "required fuel" value, though.

I still need to calibrate my sensors, but that's no big deal.

I didn't see any mention of jumper changes for the MS3 stuff for any of the procedures I've followed. I haven't opened the unit to look if there are, though. I imagine there would be but I don't know if I have to change anything.

@ Ada what's what I was going to do. Add a little momentary push button at the end of some speaker wire, at the other end have alligator clips that put 12V to the start signal when the button is pressed :)
R.I.P. 1990 Red Hatch - DOHC 5 speed // CP 9:1 - Eagle Rods - Clevite - ARP // Holset HX35 - 20psi daily - MSPNP2
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Re: airman's 600hp strip/street rocket build thread

Post by supakat »

MS2 only handles wasted spark. With MS3 you have sequential ignition or you can run wasted. Benefits of sequential is that it reads better over 7k and you can tune each cylinder individually. That is really for the hardcore enthusiasts or pro racer. I would setup as wasted spark and get her to fire up. If later down the road, then sequential.
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Re: airman's 600hp strip/street rocket build thread

Post by airman »

Sounds good. I will stick with wasted spark & batch fire for now. Do I need to try to load timing/fuel maps on there or are the ones on there fine for startup? I haven't looked too closely. I've been focusing on all the other stuff lately.
R.I.P. 1990 Red Hatch - DOHC 5 speed // CP 9:1 - Eagle Rods - Clevite - ARP // Holset HX35 - 20psi daily - MSPNP2
8-bit wrote:You could spend your life building a ladder to the moon, or work for 5 years to pay for a trip.
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Re: airman's 600hp strip/street rocket build thread

Post by supakat »

I loaded my map on his car then adjusted the req fuel to get started. I can send you my tune if you like.
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Re: airman's 600hp strip/street rocket build thread

Post by TrackStarGT »

I thought that MS2 could do sequential with outputs ALED(spark C) and WLED(spark D)? it is wire number 4 and 5 on my 15 pin output connection.
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Re: airman's 600hp strip/street rocket build thread

Post by airman »

supakat wrote:I loaded my map on his car then adjusted the req fuel to get started. I can send you my tune if you like.
Sure. You can send it to tucker240mt on gmail.

Trackstar I think you are right. I remember seeing the options but without the hardware I didn't care to look further into it.
R.I.P. 1990 Red Hatch - DOHC 5 speed // CP 9:1 - Eagle Rods - Clevite - ARP // Holset HX35 - 20psi daily - MSPNP2
8-bit wrote:You could spend your life building a ladder to the moon, or work for 5 years to pay for a trip.
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Re: airman's 600hp strip/street rocket build thread

Post by airman »

So - went to start up today. Added oil, tightened oil lines. Up to this point, I've bumped the starter a few times and used it to jog the engine around to set the timing. Easier than turning by hand, which was still certainly doable.

So now, with the spark plugs still out and oil in the pan, I go to let it turn over for several cycles. Sounded like the starter was losing juice, but then I saw the 200A fuse for my battery main start to get hot.

I go to turn it by hand and with the plugs out, it is really tough. I know it isn't the rotating assembly, but other than that, I have no idea.

I will see what happens if I let the oil drain back into the pan and try bumping the starter again. I can't imagine an oil pump causing this much resistance, though. Very discouraging...
R.I.P. 1990 Red Hatch - DOHC 5 speed // CP 9:1 - Eagle Rods - Clevite - ARP // Holset HX35 - 20psi daily - MSPNP2
8-bit wrote:You could spend your life building a ladder to the moon, or work for 5 years to pay for a trip.
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Re: airman's 600hp strip/street rocket build thread

Post by S14wayz »

Is it a new front cover? The oil pump has little resistance so shouldnt be that.
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Re: airman's 600hp strip/street rocket build thread

Post by S14wayz »

I guess pull the tranny and see how it spins with that off to eliminate that completely... what about taking the top front cover off and seeing if the timing chain isn't binding up on a tensioner or something?? It can really only be a few things if your certain its not the rotating assembly. That is defiantly discouraging though :(
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Re: airman's 600hp strip/street rocket build thread

Post by airman »

Yeah, I'm going to start with the front cover and check the chains/tensioners. Then if those all look okay, I will pull off the trans. Already got the starter out this morning before work.
R.I.P. 1990 Red Hatch - DOHC 5 speed // CP 9:1 - Eagle Rods - Clevite - ARP // Holset HX35 - 20psi daily - MSPNP2
8-bit wrote:You could spend your life building a ladder to the moon, or work for 5 years to pay for a trip.
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Re: airman's 600hp strip/street rocket build thread

Post by airman »

Decided against my original gut and decided to start taking the transmission off and skip the front cover. Oil, oil pan, pickup tube, front pulley, + more, yick. I pulled the valve cover and everything looked to be in order. There was actually fresh oil up there, which was good to see.

I took off the driveshaft and pulled out the bellhousing bolts. Went to turn over the engine, and holy hell batman - engine turns over fine. Put 3 of the bellhousing bolts back in and the bind comes back. WTF?

Keep in mind when loosening these bellhousing bolts, it isn't like I am also separating the bellhousing from the block at all. It's simply no longer torqued down...

I suppose I will continue removing the transmission. I am more enlightened, but no less confused...
R.I.P. 1990 Red Hatch - DOHC 5 speed // CP 9:1 - Eagle Rods - Clevite - ARP // Holset HX35 - 20psi daily - MSPNP2
8-bit wrote:You could spend your life building a ladder to the moon, or work for 5 years to pay for a trip.
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by Ada180sx »

Just out of curiosity, did you confirm if the clutch is uncoupling properly? I would put the car in gear, depress the clutch pedal and have someone try to spin the wheels (assuming you have an LSD). If it hangs up and tries to turn over your motor with the pedal in, you found your problem.

I have seen similar problems before with SRs. Usually ends up being a bad or improperly installed pressure plate.
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by airman »

I plan to redo the whole clutch/PP setup and restab the trans. The more I read into this problem online, I'm pretty confident this will solve the issue.

As far as hitting the clutch pedal - well, I saw the clutch line already there, but it's just the end that goes into the damper box I don't have. The fitting won't deal to the slave cylinder. I forgot they wouldn't work, I ran into the same thing with my last build too!

My Isis stainless steel conversion line gets here Monday. So....that may be the day I go driving!
R.I.P. 1990 Red Hatch - DOHC 5 speed // CP 9:1 - Eagle Rods - Clevite - ARP // Holset HX35 - 20psi daily - MSPNP2
8-bit wrote:You could spend your life building a ladder to the moon, or work for 5 years to pay for a trip.
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by airman »

I think Ada may be on to something with the clutch, and I won't be able to find out until Monday when my clutch line gets here - but there are a couple of alignment pins on the block for the bell housing that are chamfered at the base (I think they are chamfered at the bases, anyway). When the bell housing bolts are loose, these alignment pins would be able to "relax" a bit. Clutch alignment tools aren't perfect, but they get close.

I am thinking the clutch disc isn't entirely centered with respect to the transmission, and then when the alignment pins do their job (from torquing down the trans bolts), the slight misalignment creates the bind perhaps. It may be placebo, but I swear after I whacked the clutch fork a few times with a hammer, it seemed easier to turn the engine over.

I restabbed the transmission twice. Trans spins super freely by hand and so does the engine. I shall focus on other stuff for the time being.
R.I.P. 1990 Red Hatch - DOHC 5 speed // CP 9:1 - Eagle Rods - Clevite - ARP // Holset HX35 - 20psi daily - MSPNP2
8-bit wrote:You could spend your life building a ladder to the moon, or work for 5 years to pay for a trip.
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by TrackStarGT »

man, I hope you get this figured out. I hate running in to problems so close to start up.
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by airman »

The clutch not being perfectly lined up at this second is really the only thing I can think of. I've never had to "skip" the clutch portion before startup, so I wouldn't have encountered this before in my experiences. After restabbing the trans and trying to move the clutch fork a bit (couldn't knock it much plus I didn't want to hurt it from impact), it is not as difficult to turn over as it once was. Still though, a lot more difficult. Without the trans tightened down, my 1/2" ratchet with a socket on the crank pulley bolt is easy to turn around. After tightening though, I can still put enough force on it to get it to turn. Before, there was no way I could move it without a breaker bar.

I am really feeling that tomorrow after I get my real clutch line in, it will be good :) Staying optimistic.
R.I.P. 1990 Red Hatch - DOHC 5 speed // CP 9:1 - Eagle Rods - Clevite - ARP // Holset HX35 - 20psi daily - MSPNP2
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by S14wayz »

good luck my man, hope you get this thing fired up soon :)
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by babowc »

What clutch setup are you using? If it's "whitebunny", make sure to look at your dust plate. Mine had contact on the back of the FW and caused similar issues.
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by supakat »

babowc wrote:What clutch setup are you using? If it's "whitebunny", make sure to look at your dust plate. Mine had contact on the back of the FW and caused similar issues.
Doubt this is the issue since he stated he loosened up the tranny and it spun free. Since the fw is still on the motor, it would grind although the tranny is divorced.

I wonder if the pp is hitting bellhousing? Input shaft binding on the pilot bearing could be an issue but I doubt it.
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by babowc »

^ makes sense..
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by airman »

I found the alignment pin at the top of the block and the alignment "ring" towards the bottom are not doing their job.

I need to see if I can find that "ring" thing that goes in the lower left of the block. The upper pin that's fixed is boogered, so I filed it + reamed the alignment hole on the transmission.

I've got the dust plate ready to go on. I just cut the bottom half off and I'm using it as a shim. Even with two jacks it isn't easy to get the transmission stabbed. Gave up last night after it started getting ugly.

The face of the pilot bushing is a tiny bit boogered, but the hole for the shaft itself is clean. *teehee*
R.I.P. 1990 Red Hatch - DOHC 5 speed // CP 9:1 - Eagle Rods - Clevite - ARP // Holset HX35 - 20psi daily - MSPNP2
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by supakat »

Could be an issue with no dust plate if I am interpreting correctly. Possible the shield takes up some space before it binds on housing or input shaft to crank. I would have left it complete and installed like it should behind the fw. Hope all is well.
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by S14wayz »

getting the transmission and engine back together is a pain in the ass, I always use c-clamps on the tranny and engine to pull it together when I have to do it by myself. I feel for you bro lol.
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by Ada180sx »

My preferred method by myself is the olde faithful lay on the back, tranny on the knees, try not to slip and drop it on the family jewels method. My car used to shred 3rd every couple times I went to the track so, I only got fairly proficient at this method.
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by airman »

^ You must be a bigger guy than I am. Getting underneath the trans and putting the bellhousing under my face sounds like a good way for me to need plastic surgery haha.

Maybe I'm imagining it wrong, though.
R.I.P. 1990 Red Hatch - DOHC 5 speed // CP 9:1 - Eagle Rods - Clevite - ARP // Holset HX35 - 20psi daily - MSPNP2
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by adamky »

I wouldn't recommend getting under the trans without a jack, especially if you're doing all the work by yourself. I have a scar right at the front of my hairline where the transmission dropped unexpectedly about 3 weeks ago. I thought I had one bolt still holding it in. Tried to remove one of the trans sensors so it wouldn't get damaged and the whole trans just fell out. The back flange that surrounds the output shaft caught my head on it's way down. It was an extremely dumb move and I'm very lucky it wasn't worse. Could have knocked my teeth out or cracked my skull...

I would recommend you get a trans jack from Harbor Freight. They are great once you get the hang of working with them. Also, loosening the motor mount bolts and tilting the motor back with a hoist makes it a ton easier to get in there. I've gotten to where I can get the trans in and out pretty easily by myself using this method.
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by airman »

^ Me agrees lol, working in manufacturing and watching someone lose the tips of two fingers just like that from not being more cautious has made me a lot more safety conscious - that's for sure.

Transmission jacks would make it a little easier. I will get back to trying it tonight and see if I can make it happen. If not, transmission jack time.
R.I.P. 1990 Red Hatch - DOHC 5 speed // CP 9:1 - Eagle Rods - Clevite - ARP // Holset HX35 - 20psi daily - MSPNP2
8-bit wrote:You could spend your life building a ladder to the moon, or work for 5 years to pay for a trip.
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by supakat »

Trans jack for the win. When I was battling loosened flywheel bolts, I use a tranny jack to drop in and out. Literally took me 15 min to align and pop in. The z32 is a little harder as well since the bellhousing is bigger plus heavier.

Damn, Adam. Thank god nothing worse happened. I learned my lesson when I was in high school. I was doing breaks on my friends se-r on a slant. Had the jack roll back and the front right of the car drop onto the driveway. Could have lost a foot or something crazy.
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Re: airman's build - **strange transmission issue? 7/18**

Post by adamky »

Yeah, I have a constant fear of being crushed under a car while I'm working on it alone. So, I typically try to be really cautious. I always use jackstands and never trust a jack alone. I also try and shake the car after getting it up on jackstands to make sure it's good and solid. You can never be too careful.

I had two friends in the garage when the trans dropped on me. All they heard and felt was a loud thud when the bellhousing slammed into the ground. They ran around the side just as I crawled out with blood pouring out of my head. They thought I had cracked my skull or something. I think they were more scared than I was.

Honestly, I was trying to get it out really quick, which is what led to this. Now, every time I look in the mirror, I get to see a reminder about why it's important to do things the slow and careful way.
Wiseco/Eagle, JWT S1 cams, BC valve springs, PT5857, ID1700 injectors, SR20DET ECU w/ Nismotronic, COP conversion with LS ignition coils, etc, etc...
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