Divided T4/Twin WG Turbo Manifold+More!(updated 3/26/17)

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TanManS14
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Post by TanManS14 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:12 am

Retarded uniform port work man. Are you using sanding drums on a die grinder or what? Is the final finish done with scotch brite like the runner? Did you burn the contaminants out of the cast before welding the runners or does the polished finish help against trapping dirt? What cleaning %? 1/8th tungsten I assume? That quality of weld on cast is not easy.
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Post by Alonso » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:31 pm

60 grit to remove excess weld, then 120 to smooth it out a bit. As for the radiuses, I cut 3 different angles just like a valve job using a rotary file on a straight die grinder. Started with a 45degree cut about 1/4" wide, then 2 more angle cuts. After that blended in all 3 with a 90degree angle grinder using 2" dia red scotchbrite roloc discs in a circular motion and also going in and out as needed. I would grind the edge of the disc on another sanding disc to make it smaller so I could get in the runner.

After all that I hit the plate with a DA sander to see how far out the radius spread.

As for welding the casting....that **** is full of contaminants that no amount of cleaning will remove! It's in the material itself, you'll spend a lot of time trying to burn it all out.

I was running 65% helium/35% argon mixed gas, #6 standard cup,3/32 2%thor Tungsten, 150Hz, and some where around 17-20% cleaning action. This was on a Thermal Arc 200 welder.

Don't let the pics fool you! Runners 3 and 4 still have a few voids/pores in the weld. At one point all 4 had some... I got sick of chasing that **** and just rolled with it. The plate warped a bit trying to "burn" them all out. The fillet weld on the outside should be 100% sealed anyways haha.

To minimize porosity, I recommend preheating your workpiece,running the weld hot(but don't overcook it!), moving at a slow to steady pace to give it time to burn out the contaminants, and use just enough filler rod to meet your visual/dimensional requirements. The He/Ar mix gas helds tremendously also.

I'm sure you know this but for others that may be reading, always keep your filler rod
Close to your tungsten. This will also keep it in the shielding gas, and less likely to become oxidized. If you pull too far back, you may oxidize the tip and introduce contaminants to your weld bead. The smaller the cup, the harder it is to keep it shielded...
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Post by Alonso » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:56 pm

Here's where the plenum is currently at-
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Here you can see part of the plenum going at an angle towards the base plate. I would prefer it to bo perpendicular, but sometimes we must compromise. Otherwise the intercooler pipe would have had to be made of 2 90° bends. This way its nearly a straight shot. I'm stll debating if I should redo this section with pie cuts and try to smooth the transition. Opinions anyone?

And Yes, I know its gonna be huge :lol: if I calculated correctly, the plenum should have a volume of 300+ cu inches!
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Post by TanManS14 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:10 pm

Huh, so the helium argon helps with contamination or just runs hotter and makes it easier on thick pieces? Thanks again for all the advice. I try and hold my tongue as much as I can lol, but I can't help but ask when I see something I want to improve on. That's a small cleaning cycle as well. My htp is backwards from the thermal arc units but I'm usually around 65% so 35% for you. I'll try 80, never gone that high before but we'll see, didn't think it'd be advantageous unless I was maxing the machine out or really concerned with penetration.

As far as the throttle body angle I like cutting a mandrel in half, though I don't know if that raises design concerns for you. On mine I wanted it angled towards the fender, but if you want yours parallel to the head you could easily leave the full 90 in there.
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Post by Alonso » Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:31 pm

The helium runs much hotter and helps with thicker materials. Also helps if you keep having porosity/voids in your weld after you grind them down. Don't be afraid to ask! Just make sure you're not being fed some BS.

I usually run 20% cleaning action, sometimes going down to 16%. I weld aluminum as thin as .025(sometimes thinner!) So a small concentrated arc is needed.

I didn't notice you edited your post til now! I actually cut a mandrel bend in half earlier, I'm doing something similar to what you did. ***** pie cuts lol unless absolutely necessary.

What thickness are the bends you used for your plenum?
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Post by Alonso » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:45 pm

small update. changed up the plenum a bit
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showing fillet weld on the inside and penetration on the butt weld
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Finally seeing some more progress!
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this pic gives me motivation lol! looking mean!
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Post by sdaigle240 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:49 pm

i love checking back in on this thread.
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Post by Empire087 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:15 pm

I love the welds, my stainless welds are pretty close. But you got me beaten by a mile with the aluminum ones by a mile. So sexy.
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Post by TanManS14 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:25 pm

Holy whale cock, the plennum is looking sick. The downward twist it takes is sweet. I used .125 sheet and 16 gauge on the mandrels. 16 gauge was way too thin IMO and made fit up much harder with thick sheet. If i could do it again i would use 11/12 gauge pipes and .125 sheet.
Ever tried it like this?
Instead of a butt (this is actually one that cracked from a backfire at startup), weld was cold and with a 165a, but still.
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w206 ... 4b68f0.jpg
After that fun experience, I like to overlap the plennum into the flange. Stronger I think, no bleed through, also when you fit it up you're just laying center pieces on top instead of balancing em in between the pipes and ur runner flange.
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w206 ... 9aeaf5.jpg
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Post by myowncasualty » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:33 am

Have a source for thicker aluminum bends? I cant seem to find anything thicker than 16 gauge and I would love to not make pie cuts anymore.
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Post by TanManS14 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:16 pm

It's always broken.

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Post by myowncasualty » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:34 pm

yeah but it only goes up to 2.25 " which is to small for my liking.
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Post by TanManS14 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:41 pm

http://www.globaltecheng.com/ProductCar ... S3=0&VS6=0

Second times the charm. TinyT Tipped me off to this site.
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Post by Alonso » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:51 pm

ha thats badass. maybe if I build another, I'll use those.

I got a bit sidetracked on the project. I put in a little bit of work into my dd/work car and started collecting bits for a s13 silvia frontend conversion for it. I just need a hood and front bumper now...

Last saturday I got more material for the intake manifold and immediately went to work. Should be posting an update soon.
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Post by myowncasualty » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:42 pm

good find on that global tech
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Post by Alonso » Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:08 pm

Finally welded up the plenum this morning
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danger to manifold-what? lol

Let"s just say...I"m glad all our torches are water-cooled :lol:
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Post by Alonso » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:08 pm

2 more pics
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Sometimes I step back and ask myself....

WTF am I doing?!

:)
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Post by nismo_dreaming » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:34 am

BONER ENGAGED :shock:
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Post by turbo2nr » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:23 am

damm amazing work as always
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Post by Alonso » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:08 pm

not much of an update....progress has slowed to a crawl, a thing called life keeps getting in the way lol
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Post by turbo2nr » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:25 am

this is the 2jz of ka's hahahah

amazing work as always , im going to need a intake manifold like yours soon!!
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Post by adamky » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:28 am

I'm so jealous. I want to be able to do work this nice.
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Post by sdaigle240 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:17 am

wow that made my pants feel funny, just like looking at naked ladies.
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Post by Alonso » Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:27 am

No progress update.

Block is on the engine stand, been tight on time.

On the bright side, I may be purchasing a tig welder soon for my garage! May give the HTP invertig 221 a shot. Haven't heard anything negetive about it.
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Re: Divided T4/Twin WG Turbo Manifold+More!

Post by Alonso » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:11 am

It's been awhile since I've posted an update...expect a huge photo dump soon as I have started working on the car again! I am hoping to have it running just in time for summer...
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Re: Divided T4/Twin WG Turbo Manifold+More!

Post by Alonso » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:44 pm

Started bolting on parts finally! Still far from done, still have to fabricate several more items and a bit of wiring.

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Re: Divided T4/Twin WG Turbo Manifold+More!

Post by supakat » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:26 am

Wish I had these skills. Keep it up.
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Re: Divided T4/Twin WG Turbo Manifold+More!

Post by TanManS14 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:45 pm

Ballin. Finish herrrrr.
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Re: Divided T4/Twin WG Turbo Manifold+More!

Post by Alonso » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:21 pm

Thanks guys. Hopefully it's running and driving by the beginning of summer so I can start tuning it!
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Re: Divided T4/Twin WG Turbo Manifold+More!

Post by s14fiend » Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:10 pm

Nice build man props and kudos on the welding skills.

This is an odd question but what fitting do you have going into oil pan as a return? 45 or 90 degree?

Also what lines/fittings for WG vacuum?

Could you pm me a link ?

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