NISTUNE???

Discussion about ECU Tuning Products and Theories

NISTUNE???

Postby ka-tnoobtuber » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:48 am

Hows everyone doing, Ive been doing some research on nistune lately and all the good topics about it are always old ( like 2009) and i know there has been upgrades to this boards cause at one point i was told you cant run a gm 3 bar map? but know you can so there have been changes so i dont know what price range im looking at now ? Any help or a link to a topic would be great. Like i said all the good threads are old that i found and i know things have changed . The biggest part about this that im not understanding is the price cause a guy around here put nistune in and tunes it while driving the car for 480$ ? is that a good price cause i seen where you can get it for 433 with the software and usb cable. Any help would be awesome or a link if i over looked or missed info while searching . thanks
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Postby ka-tnoobtuber » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:27 pm

is there anyone on here willing to give me there number so i can call you and ask a few question about nistune?? I need someone that knows about it cause this prices around here dont make since
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Postby Midnight Express » Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:46 pm

well i payed 300 shipped for mine. it was used but i had the license transfered in my name. i love it. im working with steve from shadoworks right now but its a great investment. as for the price im not sure. street tuning is fine for base tunes but i wouldnt count on it as your fine tune. you need to be on a dyno for that. id look around more if i was you.
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Postby wannabethestig » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:38 pm

I have NISTUNE and so far it drives like stock except for stumble when coming to a stop but that is probably cause of the z32 maf and its location. I have not messed with the software yet, but I plan on looking at the tune once the shop is finished with it. I have seen some guys in Australia programming anti-lag for flat shifting and building boost at the line. I plan for 400whp in the next couple of weeks.
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Postby ka-tnoobtuber » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:07 am

Midnight Express wrote:well i payed 300 shipped for mine. it was used but i had the license transfered in my name. i love it. im working with steve from shadoworks right now but its a great investment. as for the price im not sure. street tuning is fine for base tunes but i wouldnt count on it as your fine tune. you need to be on a dyno for that. id look around more if i was you.




ok cool thanks man^ thats the stuff i want to know. I dont want to spend 500 and not get the software or cable with it if i can get it cheaper . I guess ill look around some more , There was a forum around here somewhere that said there was a place to get them for 430ish and thats everything , id just have to find someone to solder it in for me which wouldnt be a prob. the only thing is this forums that i keep finding are kinda old and i just have a feeling that by now things have changed not only with the price but with the software to (upgrades and things of that nature) Thanks for the input man
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Postby ka-tnoobtuber » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:18 am

wannabethestig wrote:I have NISTUNE and so far it drives like stock except for stumble when coming to a stop but that is probably cause of the z32 maf and its location. I have not messed with the software yet, but I plan on looking at the tune once the shop is finished with it. I have seen some guys in Australia programming anti-lag for flat shifting and building boost at the line. I plan for 400whp in the next couple of weeks.


where is your maf located and is it a blow thru or draw thru setup ? Ive heard that the software is actually pretty easy to fiddle with once you mess with it a couple times . I cant wait to order mine i just dont want to order the first thing that pops in front of me cause ive did that before and then after words is when i find the better deal. How much did you pay for yours ? And 400hp hell yea man thats nice , I bet a pull with 400whp would feel very nice . my hp goals right now are 275 300 somewhere in that area.

thanks man
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Re: NISTUNE???

Postby bmitchell_ga » Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:07 am

ka-tnoobtuber wrote:Hows everyone doing, Ive been doing some research on nistune lately and all the good topics about it are always old ( like 2009) and i know there has been upgrades to this boards cause at one point i was told you cant run a gm 3 bar map? but know you can so there have been changes so i dont know what price range im looking at now ? Any help or a link to a topic would be great. Like i said all the good threads are old that i found and i know things have changed . The biggest part about this that im not understanding is the price cause a guy around here put nistune in and tunes it while driving the car for 480$ ? is that a good price cause i seen where you can get it for 433 with the software and usb cable. Any help would be awesome or a link if i over looked or missed info while searching . thanks


Where did you here you can use a map sensor with Nistune?
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Postby arob987 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:54 pm

It looks like the price of nistune has gone up, and if your not good with soldering I recommend paying extra for them to solder it. Avp is good for nistune great customer service. http://www.autovaughnperformance.com/index.php

You can't use map yet just maf supported maybe later they have lots of updates for nistune. I may be selling my complete type 3 nistune ecu/cable/software in 2-3 weeks, if your interested pm me.
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Re: NISTUNE???

Postby ka-tnoobtuber » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:07 am

bmitchell_ga wrote:
ka-tnoobtuber wrote:Hows everyone doing, Ive been doing some research on nistune lately and all the good topics about it are always old ( like 2009) and i know there has been upgrades to this boards cause at one point i was told you cant run a gm 3 bar map? but know you can so there have been changes so i dont know what price range im looking at now ? Any help or a link to a topic would be great. Like i said all the good threads are old that i found and i know things have changed . The biggest part about this that im not understanding is the price cause a guy around here put nistune in and tunes it while driving the car for 480$ ? is that a good price cause i seen where you can get it for 433 with the software and usb cable. Any help would be awesome or a link if i over looked or missed info while searching . thanks


Where did you here you can use a map sensor with Nistune?
. I can't remember where l heard it , its been weeks ago but I guess I just learned something new lol so now map is out of the question
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Postby ka-tnoobtuber » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:14 am

arob987 wrote:It looks like the price of nistune has gone up, and if your not good with soldering I recommend paying extra for them to solder it. Avp is good for nistune great customer service. http://www.autovaughnperformance.com/index.php

You can't use map yet just maf supported maybe later they have lots of updates for nistune. I may be selling my complete type 3 nistune ecu/cable/software in 2-3 weeks, if your interested pm me.
. Ok cool and good to know , if you selll what will you be upgrading to ?
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Postby JKTUNING » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:18 pm

ka-tnoobtuber wrote:
arob987 wrote:It looks like the price of nistune has gone up, and if your not good with soldering I recommend paying extra for them to solder it. Avp is good for nistune great customer service. http://www.autovaughnperformance.com/index.php

You can't use map yet just maf supported maybe later they have lots of updates for nistune. I may be selling my complete type 3 nistune ecu/cable/software in 2-3 weeks, if your interested pm me.
. Ok cool and good to know , if you selll what will you be upgrading to ?


You probably heard it and confused nistune with NismoTronic :wink:

NismoTronic will be releasing our map based firmware around Jan/Feb of next year!
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Postby nx2000det » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:54 pm

JKTUNING wrote:
ka-tnoobtuber wrote:
arob987 wrote:It looks like the price of nistune has gone up, and if your not good with soldering I recommend paying extra for them to solder it. Avp is good for nistune great customer service. http://www.autovaughnperformance.com/index.php

You can't use map yet just maf supported maybe later they have lots of updates for nistune. I may be selling my complete type 3 nistune ecu/cable/software in 2-3 weeks, if your interested pm me.
. Ok cool and good to know , if you selll what will you be upgrading to ?


You probably heard it and confused nistune with NismoTronic :wink:

NismoTronic will be releasing our map based firmware around Jan/Feb of next year!


are you also working on boost by gear?
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Postby JKTUNING » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:12 pm

nx2000det wrote:
JKTUNING wrote:
ka-tnoobtuber wrote:
arob987 wrote:It looks like the price of nistune has gone up, and if your not good with soldering I recommend paying extra for them to solder it. Avp is good for nistune great customer service. http://www.autovaughnperformance.com/index.php

You can't use map yet just maf supported maybe later they have lots of updates for nistune. I may be selling my complete type 3 nistune ecu/cable/software in 2-3 weeks, if your interested pm me.
. Ok cool and good to know , if you selll what will you be upgrading to ?


You probably heard it and confused nistune with NismoTronic :wink:

NismoTronic will be releasing our map based firmware around Jan/Feb of next year!


are you also working on boost by gear?


Yep.

There are two boost by gear tables and they are switchable with an input.. so you can have high/lo boost by gear.
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Postby ka-tnoobtuber » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:13 pm

JKTUNING wrote:
ka-tnoobtuber wrote:
arob987 wrote:It looks like the price of nistune has gone up, and if your not good with soldering I recommend paying extra for them to solder it. Avp is good for nistune great customer service. http://www.autovaughnperformance.com/index.php

You can't use map yet just maf supported maybe later they have lots of updates for nistune. I may be selling my complete type 3 nistune ecu/cable/software in 2-3 weeks, if your interested pm me.
. Ok cool and good to know , if you selll what will you be upgrading to ?


You probably heard it and confused nistune with NismoTronic :wink:

NismoTronic will be releasing our map based firmware around Jan/Feb of next year!

oh ok , yea that maybe what happen my bad . Im new to all this so honesty i dont know anything about nismotronic lol Ive heard the name a couple times but thats about it .
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Postby jholman05 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:23 pm

JKTUNING wrote:
There are two boost by gear tables and they are switchable with an input.. so you can have high/lo boost by gear.


Awesome! Not sure if I'll need this or not for the track. Hopefully my 26x10.5 Et Streets wont spin too much with 20psi in first/second. Actually I'm not sure if I'll have enough load to make 20psi in first. I guess time will tell, and if I need to use this boost by gear I'll be able to look into it. Will I need a boost solenoid for this? http://www.nismotronic.com/sensors/jktu ... _01_26.php

Looking forward to the new firmware.
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Postby ka-tnoobtuber » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:25 pm

JKTUNING wrote:
nx2000det wrote:
JKTUNING wrote:
ka-tnoobtuber wrote:
arob987 wrote:It looks like the price of nistune has gone up, and if your not good with soldering I recommend paying extra for them to solder it. Avp is good for nistune great customer service. http://www.autovaughnperformance.com/index.php

You can't use map yet just maf supported maybe later they have lots of updates for nistune. I may be selling my complete type 3 nistune ecu/cable/software in 2-3 weeks, if your interested pm me.
. Ok cool and good to know , if you selll what will you be upgrading to ?


You probably heard it and confused nistune with NismoTronic :wink:

NismoTronic will be releasing our map based firmware around Jan/Feb of next year!


are you also working on boost by gear?


Yep.

There are two boost by gear tables and they are switchable with an input.. so you can have high/lo boost by gear.

Now i havent searched anything about nismotronic YET , ill prob be doing that when im dont here and see what they got but im going to go ahead and ask this question. Did you get this software(nismotronic) because you liked what you heard or seen of it ? Or cause there is a tuner in your area that is familiar with it? Im asking cause id like to know if its better then nistune or if its just ones preference on the two . Imma go check it out tho . thanks advance
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Postby JKTUNING » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:22 am

jholman05 wrote:
JKTUNING wrote:
There are two boost by gear tables and they are switchable with an input.. so you can have high/lo boost by gear.


Awesome! Not sure if I'll need this or not for the track. Hopefully my 26x10.5 Et Streets wont spin too much with 20psi in first/second. Actually I'm not sure if I'll have enough load to make 20psi in first. I guess time will tell, and if I need to use this boost by gear I'll be able to look into it. Will I need a boost solenoid for this? http://www.nismotronic.com/sensors/jktu ... _01_26.php

Looking forward to the new firmware.


Yes, you will need a boost solenoid to do boost by gear or any of the ECU based boost control.

Any standard MAC valve or GM boost solenoid will work. You have an option to adjust the frequency that is required to drive the solenoid in the software!
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Postby jholman05 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:28 am

ka-tnoobtuber wrote:Now i havent searched anything about nismotronic YET , ill prob be doing that when im dont here and see what they got but im going to go ahead and ask this question. Did you get this software(nismotronic) because you liked what you heard or seen of it ? Or cause there is a tuner in your area that is familiar with it? Im asking cause id like to know if its better then nistune or if its just ones preference on the two . Imma go check it out tho . thanks advance


I take it this was directed at me? Here's the story. I had been on a Calum RT board for 3-4 years everything worked great and I didn't really need anything different. My dad got a two tone coupe that we DE, 5 speed, 5 lug and turbo swapped and he needed an ecu, somehow we managed to find another CalumRT. Well his car wasn't togehter yet, when my old CalumRT board toasted itself. Luckily I had his Calum unit to put in my car and load my old tune on until I could find something else. I looked at Nistune but it didn't offer some of the features my ancient Calum unit did.

I looked into Nismotronic and it fit everything I needed/wanted. I was sold on it, then after I realized this I found out the hardware developer for the Nismotronic ecu lived not to many miles from my house. So I purchased another stock ecu and took it to him for the install. I asked if I could get my tune from my old calum unit convereted over to work on the Nismotronic, they pulled it off and it runs just as good as it did on the old ecu. I liked the Nismotronic so much we went ahead and got one for my dad's car as well and I currently have the Calum unit for sale.

Hope that answers your questions. For me personally I think the Nismotronic is much simpler than the old Calum/Tuner pro software. That could just be me though.
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Postby JKTUNING » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:48 am

jholman05 wrote:Hope that answers your questions. For me personally I think the Nismotronic is much simpler than the old Calum/Tuner pro software. That could just be me though.


I am glad you like it and hope you find the new SA version to be even better!

NismoTronic was designed to be a complete tuning software for the Nissan platform and to give the end user an expanded feature set over what the stock platform offers. This means you have extra features like launch control, speed density (map sensor), programmable user outputs for (nitrous, VVL solenoids, boost control), and a MUCH better logging protocol over stock to allow for faster logging speeds and A LOT more information from the ECU.

Nistune is Nissan specific, BUT it only allows access to "some" of the stock tables and does not offer any expanded features (launch control, user outputs, 8012 limit raised, etc). While it does work, it has it's own set of limitations.

TunerPro is a generic rom editor which is flexible enough to suite most things, but it isn't designed for one specific system which can have some limitations.
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Postby wannabethestig » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:36 am

JKTUNING wrote:
jholman05 wrote:Hope that answers your questions. For me personally I think the Nismotronic is much simpler than the old Calum/Tuner pro software. That could just be me though.


I am glad you like it and hope you find the new SA version to be even better!

NismoTronic was designed to be a complete tuning software for the Nissan platform and to give the end user an expanded feature set over what the stock platform offers. This means you have extra features like launch control, speed density (map sensor), programmable user outputs for (nitrous, VVL solenoids, boost control), and a MUCH better logging protocol over stock to allow for faster logging speeds and A LOT more information from the ECU.

Nistune is Nissan specific, BUT it only allows access to "some" of the stock tables and does not offer any expanded features (launch control, user outputs, 8012 limit raised, etc). While it does work, it has it's own set of limitations.

TunerPro is a generic rom editor which is flexible enough to suite most things, but it isn't designed for one specific system which can have some limitations.

Interesting feature set. It appears that someone with a 95 or newer car would have to convert to a s13 board and harness and that would cost $810.
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Postby JKTUNING » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:46 am

wannabethestig wrote:Interesting feature set. It appears that someone with a 95 or newer car would have to convert to a s13 board and harness and that would cost $810.


Unfortunately, at this time we are OBD1 ECU based, so anything OBD2 would require a step down harness. I am really trying to get this price down, but since the conversion harness isn't as popular as say a HONDA conversion harness.. it is pricey. I would love to knock another $100 off of that price in the future!

Down the road this might change, but the next platform on our plate is the 6 cylinder VG and RB setups.
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Postby wannabethestig » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:49 am

JKTUNING wrote:
wannabethestig wrote:Interesting feature set. It appears that someone with a 95 or newer car would have to convert to a s13 board and harness and that would cost $810.


Unfortunately, at this time we are OBD1 ECU based, so anything OBD2 would require a step down harness. I am really trying to get this price down, but since the conversion harness isn't as popular as say a HONDA conversion harness.. it is pricey. I would love to knock another $100 off of that price in the future!

Down the road this might change, but the next platform on our plate is the 6 cylinder VG and RB setups.

Good to know. 95 is a switchover year in that it is still obd1 but is capable of the obd2 controls.
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Postby 8-bit » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:20 am

wannabethestig wrote:I have NISTUNE and so far it drives like stock except for stumble when coming to a stop but that is probably cause of the z32 maf and its location. I have not messed with the software yet, but I plan on looking at the tune once the shop is finished with it. I have seen some guys in Australia programming anti-lag for flat shifting and building boost at the line. I plan for 400whp in the next couple of weeks.


PM me. I can help you tune the stumble out...

Basically you need to open the IACV some more (the turbo restricts the atmospheric pressure flow of air), and if necessary raise the idle from 750 to 900 or so... Also, the timing in that part of the map, matters even though the ECU will take over during idle---it uses the mapped timing as it approaches the idle takeover mode...
http://www.areasoundmusic.com

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Postby ka-tnoobtuber » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:20 pm

jholman05 wrote:
ka-tnoobtuber wrote:Now i havent searched anything about nismotronic YET , ill prob be doing that when im dont here and see what they got but im going to go ahead and ask this question. Did you get this software(nismotronic) because you liked what you heard or seen of it ? Or cause there is a tuner in your area that is familiar with it? Im asking cause id like to know if its better then nistune or if its just ones preference on the two . Imma go check it out tho . thanks advance


I take it this was directed at me? Here's the story. I had been on a Calum RT board for 3-4 years everything worked great and I didn't really need anything different. My dad got a two tone coupe that we DE, 5 speed, 5 lug and turbo swapped and he needed an ecu, somehow we managed to find another CalumRT. Well his car wasn't togehter yet, when my old CalumRT board toasted itself. Luckily I had his Calum unit to put in my car and load my old tune on until I could find something else. I looked at Nistune but it didn't offer some of the features my ancient Calum unit did.

I looked into Nismotronic and it fit everything I needed/wanted. I was sold on it, then after I realized this I found out the hardware developer for the Nismotronic ecu lived not to many miles from my house. So I purchased another stock ecu and took it to him for the install. I asked if I could get my tune from my old calum unit convereted over to work on the Nismotronic, they pulled it off and it runs just as good as it did on the old ecu. I liked the Nismotronic so much we went ahead and got one for my dad's car as well and I currently have the Calum unit for sale.

Hope that answers your questions. For me personally I think the Nismotronic is much simpler than the old Calum/Tuner pro software. That could just be me though.


yea man that anwsered everything. the only thing is i know ppl that mess with nistune around here so i can get questions answered and things like that .nismotronic is something ive heard of a couple times but no one uses around here but from what i seen on its website it does seem pretty good if it does everything its says it will do . I think im going to go ahead and get nistune just so i can learn the ropes of tuning . This will be my first time so im going to start off with something noob freindly lol
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Postby 8-bit » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:16 pm

95% of ka-t builds would shine with nistune.

Also, what wasn't mentioned here.... the stock ecu, which nistune uses, has algorithms for smoothing operation. That smooth driveability in cruise is hard to replicate in a standalone. My calum (like nistune) with my own street tune was more powerful and more smooth than a dyno tuned standalone, as vouched by Sean C (he bought it and replaced his standalone).
http://www.areasoundmusic.com

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Thinking about E-Mance? Think twice and read this:
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WARNING: Emance is now using an alias as ECUTUNERGUY and REFLASHPROS. Spread the word.
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Postby jholman05 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:12 pm

I'll agree with what he said completely. My main reason for going with Calum/Nismotronic is the launch control as I do a lot of drag racing with slicks. The stock electric fan control is also very nice.
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Postby 8-bit » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:20 pm

You can set up LC on a nistune... you do the LC settings in tunerpro, sav.e, then use it in nistune.

Obviously you need t start with the LC modified BIN.
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Postby ka-tnoobtuber » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:30 am

You said that you do it with tunerpro ? is that the sofeware that comes with nistune or is that something you had to download on your own .? it may be a stupid question but ill learn from it lol
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Postby jholman05 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:45 am

8-bit wrote:You can set up LC on a nistune... you do the LC settings in tunerpro, sav.e, then use it in nistune.

Obviously you need t start with the LC modified BIN.


Ahh I didn't know this. However it seems rather tricky when you're just trying to adjust and just changing a couple hundred rpm or a degree of timing each time. Good to know it's possible though.
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Postby JKTUNING » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:15 am

8-bit wrote:95% of ka-t builds would shine with nistune.

Also, what wasn't mentioned here.... the stock ecu, which nistune uses, has algorithms for smoothing operation. That smooth driveability in cruise is hard to replicate in a standalone. My calum (like nistune) with my own street tune was more powerful and more smooth than a dyno tuned standalone, as vouched by Sean C (he bought it and replaced his standalone).


The stock firmware also has it's own limitations which can make tuning a higher HP setup a little tricky. You end up with a good bit of lost resolution, for example transitioning from cruise to WOT at different RPM points. This is only when using an "NA" firmware on a boosted setup.. like you would be doing with a KA-T.

Sure you can work around it and everything will turn out ok but there are just little things that the community has lived with for so long that I guess it has just become standard tuning practice.

But alas, I will agree that a properly tuned stock ECU based vehicle will generally run better than most standalone systems. This is mainly because most people who are tuning the standalone aren't capable of dialing in all of the little things to help make the car drive and act like stock.
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Postby 8-bit » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:17 pm

JKTUNING wrote:
8-bit wrote:95% of ka-t builds would shine with nistune.

Also, what wasn't mentioned here.... the stock ecu, which nistune uses, has algorithms for smoothing operation. That smooth driveability in cruise is hard to replicate in a standalone. My calum (like nistune) with my own street tune was more powerful and more smooth than a dyno tuned standalone, as vouched by Sean C (he bought it and replaced his standalone).


The stock firmware also has it's own limitations which can make tuning a higher HP setup a little tricky. You end up with a good bit of lost resolution, for example transitioning from cruise to WOT at different RPM points. This is only when using an "NA" firmware on a boosted setup.. like you would be doing with a KA-T.

Sure you can work around it and everything will turn out ok but there are just little things that the community has lived with for so long that I guess it has just become standard tuning practice.

But alas, I will agree that a properly tuned stock ECU based vehicle will generally run better than most standalone systems. This is mainly because most people who are tuning the standalone aren't capable of dialing in all of the little things to help make the car drive and act like stock.


This is why I said 95%. You're talking about the other 5%.

Have a look around you. Very few people pass 1bar(400hp).
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Postby 8-bit » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:25 pm

ka-tnoobtuber wrote:You said that you do it with tunerpro ? is that the sofeware that comes with nistune or is that something you had to download on your own .? it may be a stupid question but ill learn from it lol


Ok. Here is the history, and the answers you need.

1) calum developed a launch control feature in the tunable daughterboard setups (Moates, Calum, Calum RT, Nistune, etc). If I recall, he deleted routines in the program that deal with the EGR and wrote in new code.

2) In order to have this feature in your tune (.bin), you need the tune to be built off of a .bin that already has the hacks in it. This means you need to go to my hosted tunes page and find the Launch Control .bin and then transfer over your maps, tables, etc, from whatever tune you had that didn't have LC. You could do this step in the Nistune software.

Here is the link: http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.ph ... 71&start=0

You will see mention of launch control in bold.


3) In order to adjust the launch control settings, you need to use Tunerpro. This is the software used for tuning the calumsult, but it can be used for any .bin for the KA24DE daughterboard gear as previously stated.

4) Also, in order to adjust the launch control settings, you will need the launch control .XDF file for Tunerpro. In tunerpro, you use a XDF file to view tunes correctly. The software can tune Chevrolet, and other ECU, so the XDF file is how you tell the software which type of tuning you are doing. Some XDF for the ka24de are setup for regular tunes, etc, and then some are set up to utilize the hacked LC setup in the tune.

5) So if you have a nistune, which is a daughterboard using the same .bin files for the tunes, you use Tunerpro with the LC XDF File, load up the LC .Bin tune, and set the launch control settings as you desire while using Tunerpro. Save the tune.

6) You load the tune into Nistune, and tune the other parts of the tune to fit your car. Nistune software lacks the ability to adjust the LC settings, but they are there hidden in the tune (.bin) just as before. And the ECU will utilize the LC settings.

7) If you need to go back and adjust the LC settings, you use tunerpro and tweak it, save it, and reload it into your daughterboard, etc.

------------------------------

That should be pretty damn clear.
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Postby JKTUNING » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:56 pm

8-bit wrote:This is why I said 95%. You're talking about the other 5%.

Have a look around you. Very few people pass 1bar(400hp).


Well honestly, the issue is still present no matter how much boost you are running, it is just more noticeable in higher HP applications as they have a greater range of load values (which aren't covered in the stock ECU at WOT).
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Postby 8-bit » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:21 pm

The interpolation of the values alongside well thought out tuning provides a very solid tune that is smooth in operation and addresses the conditions of cruise and boost appropriately. Maybe we fundamentally disagree about what matters here, but the reality of what rolls out on the streets shows that such 'lost resolution' is almost irrelevant -- again, considering 95% of these cars are hobbies --- nobody is shooting the car to mars, or even competing for inches.
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Postby JKTUNING » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:00 am

8-bit wrote:Maybe we fundamentally disagree about what matters here, but the reality of what rolls out on the streets shows that such 'lost resolution' is almost irrelevant -- again, considering 95% of these cars are hobbies --- nobody is shooting the car to mars, or even competing for inches.


I think it is just the fact that to me it isn't fundamentally correct to limit yourself to the last column of the fuel table for any throttle over say 80%.. which includes all boost levels. Even though we are talking about a MAF based system here, it still doesn't make any sense to do so.

There is a way around it, but the stock firmware limits you to the last fuel column anytime you are WOT. While that is perfectly fine for an all motor car, to me it doesn't cut it for anything that is running any significant amount of boost.

The OEM tunes for the forced induction cars do not have this limitation, as they shouldn't.
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Postby arob987 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:44 am

JKTUNING wrote:
8-bit wrote:Maybe we fundamentally disagree about what matters here, but the reality of what rolls out on the streets shows that such 'lost resolution' is almost irrelevant -- again, considering 95% of these cars are hobbies --- nobody is shooting the car to mars, or even competing for inches.


I think it is just the fact that to me it isn't fundamentally correct to limit yourself to the last column of the fuel table for any throttle over say 80%.. which includes all boost levels. Even though we are talking about a MAF based system here, it still doesn't make any sense to do so.

There is a way around it, but the stock firmware limits you to the last fuel column anytime you are WOT. While that is perfectly fine for an all motor car, to me it doesn't cut it for anything that is running any significant amount of boost.

The OEM tunes for the forced induction cars do not have this limitation, as they shouldn't.


I'm gonna have to agree with 8-bit I have nistune and I never have to be in the last column when I'm wot in boost, let alone 80 % throttle. If you don't know how to scale the map for na and boost then of course you will be at the last column, but that's tuner error not a software error. I can make the fuel column being used any column in want it to be.

Not doubting your tuning or product just don't want misleading information floating around for people new to tuning thinking they need something like your product to tune there car to be superior. all the features sound good but for a new person to tuning setting up all the parameters of ecu and learning tuning would be overwhelming and probably end up in catastrophe.
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Postby JKTUNING » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:15 am

arob987 wrote:I'm gonna have to agree with 8-bit I have nistune and I never have to be in the last column when I'm wot in boost, let alone 80 % throttle. If you don't know how to scale the map for na and boost then of course you will be at the last column, but that's tuner error not a software error. I can make the fuel column being used any column in want it to be.


Your "calculated TP" might not be in the last column, this is what nistune and all of the other logging software allow you to see for map tracing.

The actual column that is used for fueling when over 80% throttle is the last column in the fuel map.. so in the end they are map tracing the calculated TP value AND not the actual column that is being used.

There is this little thing called an alpha N limit flag in ALL of the NA Nissan tunes, (including the KA), it is a table indexed by RPM in which any throttle percentage over the value listed in that table will cause the fuel table to read off the last column.

This is NOT mis information, just something that you don't have access to or have the ability to disable in the stock firmware.

Also, THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO THE IGNITION TABLES. The ignition table always uses the calculated TP value for table look up.

All the features sound good but for a new person to tuning setting up all the parameters of ecu and learning tuning would be overwhelming and probably end up in catastrophe.


The current version of the software is really no different than tuning a stock firmware ECU, but you just have access to everything in the ECU.. without any hidden items or unknown/mislabeled tables.
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Postby 8-bit » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:15 pm

You are wrong.

I scale my maps so that cruise/atmospherics are in the first 6-7 columns and then boost and overboost safety are in the lat 9-10 columns. My maps trace exactly as they would be expected to. You have to remap the TP scaling for the fuel and timing maps so that your TP for atmospheric is in the middle, not the end of the map.

You may not be communicating clearly, but what I read from you sounds like misinformation or that you are mistaken.

To quote you:
I think it is just the fact that to me it isn't fundamentally correct to limit yourself to the last column of the fuel table for any throttle over say 80%.. which includes all boost levels. Even though we are talking about a MAF based system here, it still doesn't make any sense to do so.


Those words make a claim that is false. The maps I have images of here are real, and in nistune, they trace where they are indicated. Even when I tuned my Calum RT in tunerpro RT and used Nissan Datascan, it traced correctly. And all the while my maps had several columns of resolution for the range of boost. I plan my tunes this way because it produces a more 'map-like' table where the TP values are reflected somewhat evenly across the air-pressure/flow. So because my tunes go to about 1 bar (with some room over that), that is 2 Bar Absolute Pressure, so I need the first 14 columns to span that region evenly. And thanks to interpolation between the values, the tune smooth operating and in practice works similar to a smoothed tune of higher resolution.

Here's a figure I generated while explaining this in another thread:

Image

Image


As far as I have been able to tell, my fuel values are reflected correctly. I would run round 12.5 for the first 0-5psi and then 12ish for 6-8psi, then 11.5ish from there on up. When driving, these values were reproduced. Maybe you had other values in the tune set up in a limited fashion, like TTPMax?

A side note: Both of my KA-T, T3/T04E S13, and GT28R, then GT3071R S14, would spool with even 50% throttle position, and after 60-70%, there was no noticeable (butt dyno) difference in performance thereafter.
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Postby JKTUNING » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:08 pm

8-bit wrote:You are wrong.


Those words make a claim that is false. The maps I have images of here are real, and in nistune, they trace where they are indicated.


Please re-read what I posted.

I specifically said the IGNITION MAPS ARE NOT AFFECTED BY THIS.

Only the fuel maps.

Nistune/NDS/etc are tracing the calculated TP value for the fuel map and NOT the actual column that you are using when going WOT. It traces the proper column for cruise/idle and part throttle at throttle percentages under 80%.

So no.. I am not wrong. I have tested this on the dyno and in real world conditions on many cars. When you disable the alpha N limit, it completely changes the WOT fueling and allows for more actual resolution.

I understand this is an "unfamiliar" concept for most of you guys since you have been tuning like this for some time now, but you would be amazed at some of the oddities in the Nissan firmware that have been uncovered the further into the code you get.

Just to be clear here, you do understand that Dave from TunerCode has completely disassembled and rewritten the whole firmware for the OBD1 Nissan ECU. He has by far the best understanding of how these ECUs work. I have been working with him for the last 3 years to produce a product specifically designed for this platform. There are no questionable tables/values/flags, they are all known and well documented, including the alpha N limit.

If you would like to discuss this further, shoot me a PM.
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Postby wannabethestig » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:12 pm

I am very interested in this thread an i have nistune but am not the one tuning the car at this point. Couple of questions.

1. Can nistune turn off the alpha-n maps for fuel?
2. Can nistune change this alpha-n map?
3. Can nistune change the alpha-n map trigger points?
4. If nistune can't do either and you account for the enrichment factor of the alpha-n map when you are creating your wot map does it matter? I mean you can still hit you target afr's right, so what would be the benefit of doing any modifications to the alpha-n settings?

I guess that any columns between 80% and your last column would be worthless if it just jumps to the alpha-n table. I keep going back to the resolution statement. If you build the same amount of boost per given rpm all the time then i don't think it would matter much however in the real world this doesn't happen due to how much weight is in the car the gear you are in going up hill or down your shifting rpm temperature ect. Ect. I guess a couple of commas would have helped there.

5. Can you trick nistune/ecu into thinking you are not at wot (initiating alpha-n enrichment) but then using your fuel map?

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