Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

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p00t
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by p00t »

Looks good, thanks for posting a picture of the setup! That jacket on the COP harness looks really durable.

Also I think you beat me to the 3D printed dizzy cap!

Mines waiting to go on:
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Last edited by p00t on Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mfschoenberg6522
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by mfschoenberg6522 »

Yes, Wiring Specialties makes a very good product. Highly recommend them for harnesses & connectors on Nissan's.

I found another source for dust covers on ebay for slightly less than Xcessive with free shipping from the Midwest. These seem to be rapid prototpye style material, with a fairly high heat capability. Actually, I had a exhaust gasket leak on my CXRacing tubular header that melted my distributor and caused alot of problems (left me stranded). So I'm happy to get rid of the distributor & spark plug wires.

For whatever reason, the CXRacing tubular headers placed my turbo compressor very close to the dizzy, I had to rebuild the center section last year as a replacement T3/T4 from CXRacing didn't fit (Designed for S13 w/ shorter dizzy w/o internal coil). So that opens me up to a new turbo as well and is
on my 'to do' list.

I had my eye on a Nice Time Racing valve cover adapter w/o hardware for a Honda K coil, but these are $275. I used 2 part epoxy & M6 x 1 tapped bosses. This may be a temporary solution for now. Maybe a reason others could use LS coils. I still have a ROM tune S13 ECU, looking at a Nismotronic solution or possibly stand alone in the distant future now that I have a COP solution. I had looked into the SR20 ECU w/ adapter harness, but decided to go a different direction.
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by BoostedB »

Hey p00t! Joined just to solicit a message from you. I'd like to get ahold of one of these!
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Alonso
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by Alonso »

Wow I haven't been keeping an eye on the forums close enough! How much are these COP converters going for?
Billet PTE 6765 divided T4, Nismotronic, Speed density, Coil on plug conversion.

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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by p00t »

Hey Alonso. I am selling them for $125 + shipping. Going to have to make more it seems!

You can thank Matt (mfshoenberg) for reviving this thread... and also special thanks to the bots for not having spammed this thread yet. I am a little jealous "ingoodpoo8" chose a different thread to comment in!

I was looking at the Maxima coils and it looked like three of them could use the existing valve cover bolt holes to hold them down. Maybe use a stud or a longer bolt with a spacer? I am not sure what options are out there for adapting them to the KA but if anyone has info we should update the Maxima coils thread.

Here's how the 01 Max coils fit FYI:
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Last edited by p00t on Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

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Awesome seeing you legends still around. I hope with the new phpBB update and recaptcha v3 we will not see much spam.
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by Alonso »

I'd be willing to hang around more but every browser I use warns me that the connection to this site is not secure. What can one do about that, if possible?
Billet PTE 6765 divided T4, Nismotronic, Speed density, Coil on plug conversion.

AWS D17.1 certified ;)
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by airman »

Ahh! Thanks for pointing that out - SSL certificate is renewed and https is now enabled.
R.I.P. 1990 Red Hatch - DOHC 5 speed // CP 9:1 - Eagle Rods - Clevite - ARP // Holset HX35 - 20psi daily - MSPNP2
8-bit wrote:You could spend your life building a ladder to the moon, or work for 5 years to pay for a trip.
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by Alonso »

So after reading the manual, this unit would NOT be compatible with a stock ecu running nismotronic with spark cut limiter enabled?
Billet PTE 6765 divided T4, Nismotronic, Speed density, Coil on plug conversion.

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p00t
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by p00t »

As it is coded now no it always expects a spark because the nissan ecu normally always sends one.

I have an idea of how to remedy that but I don't have an ecu with that feature to test and debug on.
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by ShinyWisenheimer »

p00t are you still making these? Also, just out of curiosity, what’s the r&d been like? How many people are running these? Any issues? Not a whole lot of options out there for stock ecu coil on plug conversions.
I dropped a DE into a ‘73 Datsun 620 and decided to go with an auto trans so my options for stand alone ecu’s are basically zero 🤦🏻‍♂️
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by p00t »

I can make them. I need to order the PCB boards. I sold all the ones I had. I guess I should just order them so people don't have to wait.

They ran in two of my cars for years. Still in my 240 and running great.

One person has posted his car running on max coils but that's the limit of outside feedback. I would't be offering them here if they didn't work :) I was learning stuff with microcontrollers on this project so there is more time in it than would ever make sense under normal circumstances. Surely a sane person would just get a standalone instead of working on something for a few years and keep his stock ecu with a 60 dollar daughterboard :confusion-seeingstars:
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by ShinyWisenheimer »

If you’ve got plans to make more definitely put me down for one :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by p00t »

Yep just got 5 pcb boards in and will work on them soon!
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by ShinyWisenheimer »

What is required to have this setup work for different smart coils? Say I wanted to get the wiring specialties coil kit with the Honda K series coils and harness would they work? Or is it specific to LS or Maxima coils?
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by p00t »

It's just automatically mapped for LS and maxima coils so you just set it and go. You can run the K series coils with the fixed dwell setting since there is very little dwell change with voltage on those from what I see. You will be okay setting them to 3ms from what I see here: https://support.haltech.com/portal/en/k ... /thomas-te
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by mfschoenberg6522 »

Running a KA24DET with Maxima coils. Ended up getting a NiceTime Racing S14 timing cover bracket, designed for Honda K series coils, but fits the Maxima smart coils. This was not cheap. I have been offline for a while, the rings on #4 cylinder went out and now have a rebuilt engine. System provided plenty of spark on 'old' engine that was low on compression and had blow-by issues.

Eliminating the distributor provided more clearance a different CX Racing top mount turbo as well with new engine. Have to post pics soon. Always wanted COP like the SR20DET engines.
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by ShinyWisenheimer »

Time to revive this bad boy! Finished up all the wiring I was doing, installed the CoP setup, and fired her up! Runs pretty ok. Need to set the idle and timing and stuff but the CoP setup works great.
One thing I’m getting is a code for 21 which is ignition related. I’m also getting 34 which is knock sensor but I don’t believe that’s related.
So my question is since I’ve essentially taken away control of the ignition signal from the ECU is the 21 code normal? Or is it looking for something else?
I tee’d in to TDC & CAS signal and ran the IG sig direct from the ecu. In the process I removed all the other wiring for the ignition coil, igniter, etc
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by ShinyWisenheimer »

After doing some thinking and a little research I’m thinking my timing may be too advanced. The box is set at 15° and to smooth out the idle I have the dist all the way advanced. I didn’t put a light on it, just did it by ear. I may drop the box to 10° and set the timing properly and see where that gets me.
To set the timing should I be able to just clamp on the #1 signal wire like you would with a spark plug wire or is there a different method with the coil packs?
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by ShinyWisenheimer »

Sorted out the code 34 problem, had my wires crossed for the knock sensor (oops). Still working on the 21

Also to set timing I was able to just put the clamp around the signal wire going to #1, if anyone is curious.
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by ShinyWisenheimer »

Does anyone know what type of signal pin 3 on the ecu is looking for. The input comes from the coil, feeds the collector of the power transistor, and through a 2.2k resistor. I tried to fake it with a 12v signal from the ignition but I’m still getting the 21. Not sure if it’s supposed to be pulsed or what.
Truck fires up every time & the timing is set properly.
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by mfschoenberg6522 »

Been a while. I have a rebuilt engine in and bolted up to my bell housing w/ a new 'white bunny' clutch upgrade. I think there is typically a loop on #1 if you buy a harness from wiring specialties like I did for S15 smart coils (using maxima).

I'm actually running an SR20DET ECU now w/ daughter board on my S14. I made an adapter harness similar to other threads on this forum for pinouts. Running SR20DET CAS wheel. May eventually go Nistronic system once things are back up and running.

Seems like there could be an ignition check signal that the ECU may be looking for if it is throwing codes. I had originally bought an XCessive external coil kit before I went COP system. s14 dizzy is different than an S13. I remember seeing documentation out there and maybe earlier in this thread?
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by mfschoenberg6522 »

Not sure if this helps, but I was thinking about a couple of documents on JWT site about how the power transistor signal works:

http://jimwolftechnology.com/wolfpdf/MS ... 0240SX.PDF

http://jimwolftechnology.com/wolfpdf/DI ... SISTER.PDF
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by tuzzio »

For those wondering, precision speed LLC makes billet K-series coil brackets and matching billet distributor covers.
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by mfschoenberg6522 »

@ tuzzio. Thanks, I was on the fence about the $129 Nice Time racing aluminum cover to replace the plastic rapid prototype style plastic part I had. I haven't been on the forum in a long time and I remember seeing that Nice Time (via instagram) had partnered with Wiring Specialties for the Honda K coil kit. I still like the heft of the NGK maxima coils compared to a used ebay honda coils I used for fitup and using all Nissan style connectors, etc.
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by p00t »

Shiny the install looks real clean!

The ECU will throw a code for ignition coil but it should not cause the light to be on. You are just seeing the code when you scan right? You are correct that it no longer sees the single coil go negative.

For timing the ECU has to go into timing mode to lock in 20°(warmup, pull TPS, rev 3 times, cross fingers...). It is kind of hit or miss so that is why there is a timing function on the converter. Normal idling the timing will go everywhere.
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by ShinyWisenheimer »

p00t wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:25 pm Shiny the install looks real clean!

The ECU will throw a code for ignition coil but it should not cause the light to be on. You are just seeing the code when you scan right? You are correct that it no longer sees the single coil go negative.

For timing the ECU has to go into timing mode to lock in 20°(warmup, pull TPS, rev 3 times, cross fingers...). It is kind of hit or miss so that is why there is a timing function on the converter. Normal idling the timing will go everywhere.
Thanks p00t. Yeah it’s just the scan code, no CEL. As long as it doesn’t affect how the engine runs or whatever I won’t worry about it.
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by p00t »

Good to hear. I was thinking it was setting the light after reading your post. It does not affect anything. It must have the most basic logic case to set that code... How would an engine run without the coil operating (besides a COP conversion)?

When I was a Nissan mechanic (for a brief moment in history) the older SR20 Sentras would frequently have that code hiding in the ECU even on perfectly running cars.

Also I don't think it is worth the effort but if you are really trying to get rid of that code it wants to see an inverted signal from the coil. So you would need a 12v inverting circuit that sends the opposite of the ignition signal.
Last edited by p00t on Fri Mar 25, 2022 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by ShinyWisenheimer »

mfschoenberg6522 wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:59 am @ tuzzio. Thanks, I was on the fence about the $129 Nice Time racing aluminum cover to replace the plastic rapid prototype style plastic part I had. I haven't been on the forum in a long time and I remember seeing that Nice Time (via instagram) had partnered with Wiring Specialties for the Honda K coil kit. I still like the heft of the NGK maxima coils compared to a used ebay honda coils I used for fitup and using all Nissan style connectors, etc.
That’s the kit I have. Really well made but definitely not easy on the wallet.
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Re: Coil On Plug Conversion for Stock ECU

Post by mfschoenberg6522 »

new_motor_29MAR22_cop.jpg
The NTR bracket is well built, but didn't know about other options at the time. There was some flexibility in terms of using different coil pack spacers. The better option seems to be PrecisionSpeedllc.bigcartel.com. I have a billet cover on order as it is a single piece with no welding. The Radium Engineering valve cover swivel adapter was another quality item that I had to have for the KA. I like the COP system and a CNP would have required a bracket as well including high quality Magnecor wires, but to each his own. Once I get my car up and running, I will start looking again into a Nismotronic board for real time tuning and integration of my AEM air fuel meter, boost controller solenoid, etc.
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