How to run CBR coils
How to run CBR coils
Thanks to alot of guys i got this to work
UPDATE: The Twin Fire broke down after 8 hours of running time, So now i will show how to hook up a MSD DIS-4
list of things you will need to do it the way i did.
For that story look here viewtopic.php?t=25310&highlight=
-AEM EMS
-AEM Twin Fire box
-CBR F4i coils and the plugs to go with them
-Denso IK24 or NGK BKR8EIX ( over 400whp) BKR7EIX ( under 400whp) They are all IRIDIUM plugs. it is hard to find coppers with screw off tops that will fit the CBR coils... if you find any let us know
Wiring for the Twin fire
I would mount the twin fire inside the car, away from the heat.. i put mine in the stock ECU location (my ECU is in the glove box, it would not fit in the stock spot very well)
there are 3 switches on the twin fire box, i have them all on, you can turn # 1 off once you are all set up (#1 is the multi-strike switch, having it no will make it easier to set up the timing)
The two thin Red wires from the twin fire i tapped into (not cut) the ECUs black with red stripe wire. This wire fed the + for the old stock coil. if you cut this wire the ECU will not fire up the fuel pump (even though the AEM says this wire is available). Thick red to the starter with blade fuse (not **** glass one that comes with the twin fire, black to the - on the batt, other thin white to my shift light.
white - AEM trigger #1
green - AEM trigger #2
yellow - AEM trigger #3
violet - AEM trigger #4
#1front of motor counting up to the back of the motor #4, not firing order
Brown - #1 coil - black wire
orange - #2 coil - black wire
blue- #3 coil - black wire
gray - #4 coil - black wire
tan - #1&3 coil + color wire
pink - #2&4 coil + color wire
Setting up the AEM EMS, plug in these values
ignition> advanced ING> ignition phasing> options IGN phasing
*the top ignition sync changes car to car so no need to copy it*
setup> sensors> cam/crank sensor> options cam/crank setup
options> coil
*set 1, 2, 3 & 4 just like this*
ignition> advanced ING> coil dwell setup> coil dwell
*dont know if you need to do this step*
The coil dwell wisard sets it to 30 for all CID units, might be a good idea to start there.
now you have to set up your timing
*car needs to be on for this*
configure> ECU setup> set ignition
CHECK FOR TIMING DRIFT
let me know if i need to fix this up,or make it more clear
The MSD DIS-4 install update
The MSD needs a rising edge triger (trigges on the upward change of the ground) With out this the MSD would not fire
The Plug is the same as the AEMs. so if you are swaping you dont have to do any thing.
How I did this was... pulled the 8 side screws and 4 bottom ones out of the AEM EMS. Took the board out and seperated the two boards (you can see the male and female plugs in the center of this photo) this is pretty tricky you just have to work it out slow and even. I used a small plastic drift to work the center out.
Then I moved the jumpers JPC1 JPC2 JPC3 and JPC4 (JPC5 is for coil #5) there are 3 pins for each, 2 pins are joined by the jumpers **NOTE: This photo below is how it comes stock (stock config is on pins 1-2; pin 1 is labeled with the #1)...to configure it for direct fire ignition (coil on plug) make jumpers 1-4 sit on pins 2 and 3...You can leave jumper 5 the way it is.
Boom it fired up 1st time.
UPDATE: The Twin Fire broke down after 8 hours of running time, So now i will show how to hook up a MSD DIS-4
list of things you will need to do it the way i did.
For that story look here viewtopic.php?t=25310&highlight=
-AEM EMS
-AEM Twin Fire box
-CBR F4i coils and the plugs to go with them
-Denso IK24 or NGK BKR8EIX ( over 400whp) BKR7EIX ( under 400whp) They are all IRIDIUM plugs. it is hard to find coppers with screw off tops that will fit the CBR coils... if you find any let us know
Wiring for the Twin fire
I would mount the twin fire inside the car, away from the heat.. i put mine in the stock ECU location (my ECU is in the glove box, it would not fit in the stock spot very well)
there are 3 switches on the twin fire box, i have them all on, you can turn # 1 off once you are all set up (#1 is the multi-strike switch, having it no will make it easier to set up the timing)
The two thin Red wires from the twin fire i tapped into (not cut) the ECUs black with red stripe wire. This wire fed the + for the old stock coil. if you cut this wire the ECU will not fire up the fuel pump (even though the AEM says this wire is available). Thick red to the starter with blade fuse (not **** glass one that comes with the twin fire, black to the - on the batt, other thin white to my shift light.
white - AEM trigger #1
green - AEM trigger #2
yellow - AEM trigger #3
violet - AEM trigger #4
#1front of motor counting up to the back of the motor #4, not firing order
Brown - #1 coil - black wire
orange - #2 coil - black wire
blue- #3 coil - black wire
gray - #4 coil - black wire
tan - #1&3 coil + color wire
pink - #2&4 coil + color wire
Setting up the AEM EMS, plug in these values
ignition> advanced ING> ignition phasing> options IGN phasing
*the top ignition sync changes car to car so no need to copy it*
setup> sensors> cam/crank sensor> options cam/crank setup
options> coil
*set 1, 2, 3 & 4 just like this*
ignition> advanced ING> coil dwell setup> coil dwell
*dont know if you need to do this step*
The coil dwell wisard sets it to 30 for all CID units, might be a good idea to start there.
now you have to set up your timing
*car needs to be on for this*
configure> ECU setup> set ignition
CHECK FOR TIMING DRIFT
let me know if i need to fix this up,or make it more clear
The MSD DIS-4 install update
The MSD needs a rising edge triger (trigges on the upward change of the ground) With out this the MSD would not fire
The Plug is the same as the AEMs. so if you are swaping you dont have to do any thing.
How I did this was... pulled the 8 side screws and 4 bottom ones out of the AEM EMS. Took the board out and seperated the two boards (you can see the male and female plugs in the center of this photo) this is pretty tricky you just have to work it out slow and even. I used a small plastic drift to work the center out.
Then I moved the jumpers JPC1 JPC2 JPC3 and JPC4 (JPC5 is for coil #5) there are 3 pins for each, 2 pins are joined by the jumpers **NOTE: This photo below is how it comes stock (stock config is on pins 1-2; pin 1 is labeled with the #1)...to configure it for direct fire ignition (coil on plug) make jumpers 1-4 sit on pins 2 and 3...You can leave jumper 5 the way it is.
Boom it fired up 1st time.
Last edited by BRAD D on Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.
- tryingtobebest
- 240sx Wannabe
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lol yah hopefully, but its all good, just wanted to share info that wasnt available to me when i was doing it.BRAD D wrote:Thanks a ton for your info, By making this "how to" you might have less peploe asking you 100 questions... like i did to your@mon wrote:sweet, glad to see it worked out for you
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- Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
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- Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
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- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:13 pm
- Location: Kingsport, TN
Another important question for ya..BRAD D wrote:I got the 4 channel from a local store here in winnipeg... Turbo240/AMS on this forum is a dealer for AEM.
What made you get the twin fire instead of others like the MSD DIS-4 or the AEM c2di?
See, this is the only thing I need to complete my setup in order to raise the boost to like 34psi on my 35r. I've got everything else, aem ems, cbr coils, etc etc. I actually used your map back in August to get my car down to atlanta to TopSpeed for my tune which i made 471rwhp @ 23.5psi before the spark started cutting out. Just now getting things back together and just need an ignition box capable of making a good spark at 34psi. I'm shooting for at least 600whp..
I believe that AMS is running the MSD DIS-4 on the drag 240 and was plannin on goin that route, but now that you put up this excellent install/configuration thread I just might have to go the twin fire route.
98 240sx
06 Lamborghini Gallardo
02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport
99 Infiniti QX-4
07 Suzuki gsxr-600
06 Lamborghini Gallardo
02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport
99 Infiniti QX-4
07 Suzuki gsxr-600
Well Most ignition boxes are junk... all but some name that comes from down under.. but its BIG $$$. The AEM C2Di got a bad name because they were junk.. from what I hear the new Twin Fire is alot better now.. but I can not tell you 1st hand. I like the way the box looks and the size of it.. MSD might be a better option, but I know two guys that had them fail (one last year, one this year)...
All I can say is to mount it in a good spot not close to any heat.. and it wil have a better chance.
Call AMS, they install boxes on alot of cars and they will tell you what one has worked for them.
All I can say is to mount it in a good spot not close to any heat.. and it wil have a better chance.
Call AMS, they install boxes on alot of cars and they will tell you what one has worked for them.
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- Driving Mom's Station Wagon
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i love you guys, i am right now trying to do this. This should be stickied.BRAD D wrote:Well Most ignition boxes are junk... all but some name that comes from down under.. but its BIG $$$. The AEM C2Di got a bad name because they were junk.. from what I hear the new Twin Fire is alot better now.. but I can not tell you 1st hand. I like the way the box looks and the size of it.. MSD might be a better option, but I know two guys that had them fail (one last year, one this year)...
All I can say is to mount it in a good spot not close to any heat.. and it wil have a better chance.
Call AMS, they install boxes on alot of cars and they will tell you what one has worked for them.
- tryingtobebest
- 240sx Wannabe
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- Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
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well i ordered that twin fire box today and i hope this write-up is gonna get me goin! so BRAD, this write-up definitely works, right? if i follow just what you did with the wiring and AEM EMS then i should be good to go, right?
98 240sx
06 Lamborghini Gallardo
02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport
99 Infiniti QX-4
07 Suzuki gsxr-600
06 Lamborghini Gallardo
02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport
99 Infiniti QX-4
07 Suzuki gsxr-600
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- Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
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I'm wiring this up tomorrow and was just wondering something..that spark plug you're using in the pic isn't a screw-on kind is it? Is it ok to use that kind that you have in that picture or should we use a screw on kind? I just dont really know
98 240sx
06 Lamborghini Gallardo
02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport
99 Infiniti QX-4
07 Suzuki gsxr-600
06 Lamborghini Gallardo
02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport
99 Infiniti QX-4
07 Suzuki gsxr-600
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- Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
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i thought that we had to run the kind that actually had threads on the top of the plug.. i swear i've seen this type of plug somewhere..maybe it's on my bike lol i dunnoBRAD D wrote:The one in the pic is a Denso IK24, and yes it is screw off top (still installed in the photo.
You do need the screw off tops, the plugs wil not pop in to the coils other wise.
98 240sx
06 Lamborghini Gallardo
02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport
99 Infiniti QX-4
07 Suzuki gsxr-600
06 Lamborghini Gallardo
02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport
99 Infiniti QX-4
07 Suzuki gsxr-600
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- Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
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- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:13 pm
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Hey BRAD, question for ya man...my engine is still not in the car so that's why i'm getting my ignition and dual pump setup ready so i can just drop the engine in and be ready to go. I'm kinda wanting to minimize problems that i come across, so when i put the engine back in and do the initial startup i'm just gonna be on the stock ignition/distributor/sparkplugs. I'm just super paranoid that if i throw something like this in the mix right away that i will run into problems. I just want to make sure the engine will at least start before i throw the twin fire into the mix. well, is it ok to at least hook up the twin fire to the coils(leave them aside...not in the engine), hook up all the twin fire wires to the AEM EMS trigger wires, hook up the big thick red power wire to the 12v source, but NOT HOOK UP THE GROUND WIRE and still be able to use the stock ignition? What i'm saying is can i have the twin fire totally hooked up like it should be, but leave the ground wire covered up and not hooked and leave the AEM EMS settings as if i was running stock ignition? I just want to get this hooked up so after i figure out that the car will at least run on the stock ignition then all i have to do is screw down the twin fire ground wire and set the AEM EMS settings. just wasnt sure if i could do all this since i had to wire it into the AEM EMS too.
One more question for ya..a year or so ago i did the famous "distributor mod" where you take the distributor apart, cut some brass tab in there below the 360 degree wheel, and then solder a "trigger wire" to that piece that we cut and run the wire outside the distributor. Is that necessary when using this ignition with the AEM EMS? If we don't have to do that, then i have another un-modified distributor sitting around here that i can pop in.
One more question for ya..a year or so ago i did the famous "distributor mod" where you take the distributor apart, cut some brass tab in there below the 360 degree wheel, and then solder a "trigger wire" to that piece that we cut and run the wire outside the distributor. Is that necessary when using this ignition with the AEM EMS? If we don't have to do that, then i have another un-modified distributor sitting around here that i can pop in.
98 240sx
06 Lamborghini Gallardo
02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport
99 Infiniti QX-4
07 Suzuki gsxr-600
06 Lamborghini Gallardo
02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport
99 Infiniti QX-4
07 Suzuki gsxr-600
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- Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
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ok, so here's what i CAN do...with the Aem twinfire not in the car at all and the aem trigger wires untouched..BRAD D wrote:Well Coil # 1 tirggers your stock coil.. so no you cant do that..
And all the mods I did to the coil are gone now did not need them with the twin fire, all that is hooked up to the dizy is the CAS plug.. not the coil plug.
Once i get the car running on the stock distributor and i know that the engine is runnning fine on stock ignition, then i can wire the TwinFire to the aem trigger wires, wire the twin fire to the CBR coils, and ONLY have the CAS plug hooked into the distributor, right? The distributor doesnt need to be modified with a trigger wire at all does it?
dang i was kinda wantin to get this twin fire wired up, but not powered on and hoping that was gonna be ok, but i guess not.
98 240sx
06 Lamborghini Gallardo
02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport
99 Infiniti QX-4
07 Suzuki gsxr-600
06 Lamborghini Gallardo
02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport
99 Infiniti QX-4
07 Suzuki gsxr-600
Just to up date... i got the NGK plugs in the other day, just to have a spare set.... turns out they did not have the screw off top. although the #6 i had did have the screw off top....
Funny the box for then showed that thew did not screw off with a little pic on the side... i wonder if they come in the other style
Funny the box for then showed that thew did not screw off with a little pic on the side... i wonder if they come in the other style
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- Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
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so what do you recommend as far as plugs goes? should we just get those densos or is there another option?BRAD D wrote:Just to up date... i got the NGK plugs in the other day, just to have a spare set.... turns out they did not have the screw off top. although the #6 i had did have the screw off top....
Funny the box for then showed that thew did not screw off with a little pic on the side... i wonder if they come in the other style
98 240sx
06 Lamborghini Gallardo
02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport
99 Infiniti QX-4
07 Suzuki gsxr-600
06 Lamborghini Gallardo
02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport
99 Infiniti QX-4
07 Suzuki gsxr-600
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- Dont Question My Nissan Knowledge
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- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:13 pm
- Location: Kingsport, TN
how's the TwinFire doin so far? I'm anxious to hear how yours is doin because i'm still waitin for my block and head..should get em back at the end of this week or early next week. And hopefully have the car runnin a day or two after i get everything back. my tune is june 23rd so i gotta get this clutch broken in!BRAD D wrote:I'm running the Denso plugs.. had to get them from ebay, IK24s.... I wanted to go with NGK because i could order them in town here.... I still find it odd that the #6 had the right top.. but the same part# in the 8 did not...
98 240sx
06 Lamborghini Gallardo
02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport
99 Infiniti QX-4
07 Suzuki gsxr-600
06 Lamborghini Gallardo
02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport
99 Infiniti QX-4
07 Suzuki gsxr-600