New Project: Mild build

This is for all those PICTURE THREADS ONLY. Motor installs, product writeups, showing off your car, put the thread in here.
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cleantune
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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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While I was looking for some pics, I came across one I had found online for the diff collar install (4 bolts); this would have been a lot easier than the way I struggled to do it, haha. If a jig isn’t available, one can bolt a piece of flat bar to one side of the diff to help keep the diff from rolling, while torquing the collar bolts:

(not my pic; forget where I found this)
Image

Back to work on the front suspension…

The FLCAs shown here are also GKTech’s, but I don’t want to give the impression that their products have to be used in conjunction with each other because they don’t. These FLCAs can be used with OEM knuckles and OEM swaybars.

The only thing that would be physically needed to use this “extended” version (+30mm to +65mm; or anytime ANY FLCAs are extended) are extended-length tie rod ends -unless one likes to have extreme toe-out up front, which I don't think anyone would recommend. GKTech was also chosen for tie rod ends because unlike many other after market options, these have dust boot covers to protect the spherical bearings and use the same diameter "shank" as OEM, so NO drilling of knuckles. They are also 12.9 rated hardware and they come with w/ 3 different lengths (OEM, +15mm, and +35mm)

They also offer a non-extended version that is the same thing, except its length is adjustable from OEM length to +35mm

*Their knuckles are also compatible with OEM FLCAs; they may need extended tie rod ends though to reach the tie-rod-end attachment points on the back of the knuckle though, since the lower ackerman pushes these tierod end attachment points out a little further over OEM.

All the torque specs were listed on an assembly diagram from the manufacturer. The “shank” (as they call it) had be installed on the knuckle first, to insure this tapered shank end seated tight in the knuckle, but I needed a way to prevent the shank from spinning while tightening it- it didn’t help that I greased the shank.

I looked for a nut at local hardware stores, but found nothing, so I just used some washers to ensure the locking part of the included lock nut wasn’t engaged, while at the same time ensuring there was enough thread to grip the shank:
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The knuckles have a "sleeve" with a slanted top/roof", so I had to pick up a new socket that as short enough to maneuver past the slanted top piece and down into the "sleeve" (22mm about 1+1/16" height; Kobalt part# 338151); flexible extensions were needed for this as well. The top nut was also a nylon locking nut Shank install; luckily the top had more grip than the lower “washered nut” so it came off fairly easily :
Image



I don’t remember exactly the order of parts for the top and bottom, but I didn’t use the "extra" included washers due to the limited thread engagement; I’m pretty sure I put it together like the diagram said, with just one "thick spacer washer" and the nylon lock nut :
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installed bottom nut:
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FLCA installation:
Image


FLCA from bottom w/ endlink:
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FLCA from side (endlink angle):
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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by BigLoukaT »

Your build thread is timing right with my winter plans! Right after a kaaz 2 way came up for sale, I saw your install and felt comfortable with what I had to do and snagged it. Thanks for posting the help pic even though you didn't use it! I'll be sure to report back and let you know how it works out.
I will be doing something similar to remove the sohc cam sprocket bolt and keep the cam/sprocket from moving
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npx from 240sxforums wrote:i figure from my very limited knowledge about the 240 and under the hood about cars in general i would follow the sr20det trend.
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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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That's such great news, I love hearing about stuff like this! Yeah let me know how everything works out. If you or anyone else on here ever have any questions please feel free to ask; I'll be sure to continue to do the same when I read about or attempt to do new projects that you guys have already done.

Just have a small update to share:
Fixed a small mistake last night, the rear coilover bottoms were mounted backwards! This is how a shop installed them YEARS ago, before I started doing work on it myself. It is an honest mistake really though and I haven't had any problems with it being installed like this for over 5 years; so its not too big of a deal.

So, the center sleeve that goes through the bottom single mounting point sticks out further on one side. I did some online research and found the side that sticks out further should face the knuckle.

I double checked both orientations and found that when it is on the wrong way, the coilover body comes extremely close to or touches/rubs the back of the knuckle, but when its on the right way, the side that sticks out further spaces the coilover body away from the knuckle. On top of all of this, the suspension still moves freely (checked with a floor jack) and should move more freely now that the damper is oriented at the correct angle.

I believe this is the correct orientation:
Image

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Last edited by cleantune on Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by street_240sx »

I need to stop being lazy and install my gktech arms now lol, ive had them since the first batch
03 evo8 gsr: stroker 2.3 ;)

04 evo8 gsr: totalled

96 integra gsr: sold

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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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what?! yeah man, get that stuff installed, so you can have even more fun figuring out your settings!

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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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Getting back to the brake project, I tested out some torque specs using an in-lbs wrench (this was okay since nothing was stretching...I hope).
If nothing else, it provided some necessary confidence in both how tight the joint is and that the holes for the safety wire would still work with the extra rotation of a higher torque spec than hand tight; and this was with dry threads. I've heard that at the same torque wrench setting (used for dry threads) loctite or any other lubricant can almost double the torque load on the joint. So next step with this I suppose will be testing the primer and loctite on a zinc plated bolt going into an aluminum thread.

As for the rotors, haha....yea.... *sigh :| :
Image

So unlike the OEM knuckle, which has a flat backside on the caliper mounting ears, these knuckles have a tube/ring reinforcement on the backside to help strengthen their sheet metal design. On top of this these are the WRONG brackets -they are for a 300zx knuckle.

Z32 brakes can be swapped on a 240 no problem because the front side of the caliper mounting ears on both a 300zx (z32) are the same distance from the hub surface and this is the side of the knuckle the calipers mount to; however the backside of the 300zx (z32) knuckle's mounting ears are thicker. So any caliper brackets (for use with a larger rotor) that mount to the backside of the knuckle (like most do) are specific for either a 240sx knuckle or a 300zx (z32) knuckle. This was evident after testing this bracket on the OEM 240sx knuckle -the bracket stuck out past the front side surface of the caliper mounting ears on the 240sx OEM knuckle. This bracket may still be usable though:

Image

This just an idea. The spacers would need to be machined and most likely steel and welded to the bracket. So I decided to pick up some OEM z32 30mm front rotors. Wanna know how that test fitment worked?

Surprise! This wasn't a direct fit either! It turns out the outer edge of the new knuckle's caliper mounting ears are a larger diameter than the OEM caliper mounting ears, so it contacts the caliper; preventing it from sitting flush against the knuckle's mounting ears:
Image

*before removing any material I am going to double and triple check this clearance issue. I could only get one of the mounting bolts to go in smoothly (could do this with either top or bottom), but the second bolt was super tight, like the hole was not lining up correctly. Without slotting one of the mounting holes (which I DONT want to do), this contact is the only other thing that could be causing the bad fitment -thinking the contact is causing the caliper to sit crooked, so both mounting holes are not lining up.


I thought about shimming it which could still be done, but shimming may off-center the caliper on the rotor.

The caliper is fairly thin in the area of contact, so at the moment, I'm leaning towards removing material from the knuckle for fitment.



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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by wesamiss »

Wow... CLEANtune is right. I thought I did clean work but now I feel like I have ZERO attention to detail. Very nice build, keep it up. I look forward to seeing updates.
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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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Thanks Wes!

I'm making progress on this, but without a whole lot of physical results, haha; more problem solving and research in prep for other things at the moment.

Few updates:

Fitment of the caliper on the knuckle and with the rotor should be great without the need for adjustment, but just in case, I wanted to ensure the caliper could be shimmed. I noticed the z32 caliper does not have an ideal face for shimming. It has a slight inset around the bolt. This is just enough of a void to "cave"/ pull a 12mm shim washer (sized for caliper mounting bolts) into this area (with tightening), reducing the consistency/effectiveness of the shim- or at least I think it might :]


So, I measured the depth of the inset and picked up washers close to the inset's diameter- thickness just had to be close to being level with the surrounding surface without sticking out above; not exact. Using a dremel, some vice grips (to hold the washer) and a carbide attachment, each washer was trimmed down the outside until it fit in the inset. The same process was used for the washer hole until the caliper mounting bolt could go through smoothly:

Image

This is with two trimmed washer stacked; just cheap galvanized washers:
Image

...like I said slow progress at the moment haha.


On a different subject, I was test fitting the front wheels the other day and adjusting the FLCAs and tie rod ends, when I noticed some steering bind near full lock; not that I ever plan on being in full lock, but this discovery peaked my interest.

Basically, as Nick explains on Technickslide (http://www.technickslide.com/2015/01/in ... -rack.html): "This can be a car killing issue to have" and something that is out of the driver's control.

For those who don't already know, basically there are three steering points in play with overcentering:

1. knuckle pivot point (where front knuckle pivots, attaches to the FLCA)
2. tie rod end
3. tierod to rack joint

#1........................................#1
..I............................................\
#2__________#3.........->..........#2_________#3

•One can draw an imaginary line between #1 and #3.
•#2 absolutely cannot cross this line. If it does, any steering input to steer out of full lock will just push the steering further into lock in the direction the wheels are pointed. If this happens while driving, one can only hope the wheel corrects itself or get out of the car and physically move the wheel back into the usable steering range...scary.

Solutions include:
-offset rack spacers
-offset rack bushings (solid)
-rack mount forward mod

The idea behind these solutions is that by moving #3 point forward (tie rod to rack joint; the steering rack), this point is more in-line with the #1 point, giving the #2 point more distance to move before it crosses that imaginary line between #1 and #3, at which that scary overcentering occurs.

*please keep in mind the OEM rack location and front suspension geometry is ideal until these front parts are changed for other parts with different dimensions. Also, most of the time one can get away with just using bump stops that prevent excessive travel as well.... which is actually what I have been leaning towards.



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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by street_240sx »

cleantune wrote:.
what?! yeah man, get that stuff installed, so you can have even more fun figuring out your settings!

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My settings are easy, i work at a shop so i can align it as much as need. I got the longer version so ill probably have no fenders for a bit


As for your over center issue try the offset spacers, i ordered some when i got my flcas. My buddy had over center on modded oem flcas and silvermine knuckles, he said the offset spacers werent helping, he had add bumpstops til he bought PBM knuckles with solid rack bushings. With our gktech arms with offset spacers you should be ok. What knuckles you running? Sorry i only use mobile, so for me to search is a pain
03 evo8 gsr: stroker 2.3 ;)

04 evo8 gsr: totalled

96 integra gsr: sold

89 s13 coupe: stock dohc, gt3076, megasquirt

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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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...just waiting on a few parts to be ready. Right now the engine is being held on an engine support bar (red bar structure shown in older post), with a jackstand supporting the junction between the trans and engine block. Currently the front suspension is pretty bare.

In the meantime, just research... as usual, hah

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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by BigLoukaT »

cleantune wrote:.
That's such great news, I love hearing about stuff like this! Yeah let me know how everything works out. If you or anyone else on here ever have any questions please feel free to ask; I'll be sure to continue to do the same when I read about or attempt to do new projects that you guys have already done.

My man, you made my kaaz install a one man job.
Image

Upon further inspection, my kaaz looks to be a 1.5 way which I am happy with.

Thanks again for posting! Almost certain that I would have been swearing while trying to wrestle the pumpkin by myself if I hadn't seen your posts.
1990 S13
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npx from 240sxforums wrote:i figure from my very limited knowledge about the 240 and under the hood about cars in general i would follow the sr20det trend.
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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

street_240sx wrote:What knuckles you running?
The knuckles pictured in previous posts are the V2 knuckles from GKTech
BigLoukaT wrote: My man, you made my kaaz install a one man job.
Thanks again for posting! Almost certain that I would have been swearing while trying to wrestle the pumpkin by myself if I hadn't seen your posts.
Nice! So glad to hear that. :D Hey if you ever have any questions about that diff, the Kaaz customer service staff are super friendly and really helpful; I must have talked to one staff member for about a half hour about all of my questions

----

I know its been a while since this thread was updated, but not too much has changed hah. Ordered some new nylon lock nuts from McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/#90576A147) for the knuckle to FLCA attachment because I destroyed one nut when I was removing them the other day.

The current "to do" list:
-Front suspension links/ steering rack
-torque all remaining bolts
-Brakes
-remove and replace gas and all other fluids (if anyone has a great way to siphon old gas out of the tank, please let me know)
-Alignment

My super optimistic goal is to have a functional chassis by the end of the month.


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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by adamky »

Re-sizing washers by hand in a vise... you are one patient dude.

Keep it up. I want to see some running and driving videos of this thing by this summer.
Wiseco/Eagle, JWT S1 cams, BC valve springs, PT5857, ID1700 injectors, SR20DET ECU w/ Nismotronic, COP conversion with LS ignition coils, etc, etc...
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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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yes, lots of patience haha

Thanks man, that's the goal.

Finally put the brake caliper halves together! I'll have to detail this process later. As of right now all the halves are together though and lockwire is installed. Still need to clean and then reinstall the pistons and seals. Also, had some decisions to make about steering and knuckles; confident I have figured out some solutions though.

Been busy with a bunch of other things and its been soooo long since I've driven this that my motivation to finish these projects has just been lacking lately. I started watching some TED talks. Taking a cue from Adam, I'd like to share two quotes from Mel Robbins: "you are never going to feel like it". "its not easy, but you have to force yourself".

The whole vid is worth a watch in my opinion, but if one just wants the quote above in context start @9:56:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp7E973zozc

Updates coming soon!

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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by adamky »

It's really hard to stay motivated when it's been such a long time that it's been off the road. Going for a ride in a friend's modified car has helped me to get motivated before.

TED talks are awesome. I'd love to actually see one live some day. I'll watch the one you posted later tonight.
Wiseco/Eagle, JWT S1 cams, BC valve springs, PT5857, ID1700 injectors, SR20DET ECU w/ Nismotronic, COP conversion with LS ignition coils, etc, etc...
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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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^Yes, I agree completely, I think that absolutely helps out. I love going to performance shops too for motivation and watching videos of pro comp cars- dudes change out parts trackside like nothing and pull all-nighters just to make the events.

Figured it was about time for more pictures...

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

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The safety wire was a little overkill after already applying loctite primer and high temp blue locktite....or was it?.... I dunno, haha hopefully these don't come apart though.

...and now a new challenge....

So after fitting some of the new front suspension parts a few things were found:
1. With using an EDFC motor, there are small "180º brackets", which catch on a protrusion on the top spring perch. This is to prevent the "stepper" motor (mounted on top, where the damper adjustment screw would be) from rotating more than 180º. The problem is: with the newer suspension components, the bracket was stopping the steering before it had reached its full lock. So this will most likely be addressed at some point and possibly removed in favor of switching back to a manual adjustment knob.

2. With the new front suspension components the steering was fine; however, near full lock the steering was binding every once in a while. I'm almost positive bump stops would have solved the issue, but this was taken a step further. The decision was made to move the steering rack mounting locations.

As explained in the suspension thread on here, basically there are 3 points:
1- knuckle pivot
2- tie rod end
3- steering rack to tierod joint

If one draws an imaginary line between points 1 and 3, point 2 should never cross this line. If it does, steering bind can occur. At this time any more steering input by the driver to correct will push the steering further into lock and the driver is pretty much at the mercy of external forces and the car to bring the steering back into usable range. Scary stuff. I just wanted to limit this possibility as much as possible. Again, hoping this was not a mistake.

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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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So here is the result:

Image

The steering rack mounting points were moved forward about 25mm. There is still room to access the front two holes for steering rack bracket bolts.

The old steering rack had been leaking for a while, so after finding a great deal on a rebuilt rack, decided to go ahead and pick it up along with some energy suspension steering rack bushings. Had to bend the hard lines a bit on the rack to clear one of the mounting brackets on the crossmember. Those weird bends were in the lines when It arrived; I actually straightened them out a bit bending them out of the way, if you can believe it.

Image

Its going to be very interesting trying to get this back in under the engine because of how the engine has been sitting for a month or so- basically engine is just being supported by 2 chains (one around either engine mount), which are attached to an engine support bar. Really hoping the engine mount brackets have not bent or moved too much.

I tried installing the engine crossmember today and could not get both of the engine mounts to line up, but as I'm typing this now, I vaguely remember the engine mount comes off of its bracket that is mounted to the engine block. Hmm, I'll have to see if that top engine mount bolt is accessible with the chain there; only would have to get one side off.

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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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Hi everyone, looks like everyone is making progress on their builds. I just wanted to check in with some updates on this project.

Been a nightmare as always...where to start....hmmm.

1. Switched out the V2 knuckles. The spindle is very difficult to get off because nylon lock nuts are used and the spindle/shank is round (It would be great if some portion of this was flat on two sides to grip when removing). Checked out 2 different versions of V3 knuckles and sent one back. Prepped this knuckle w/ paint where it was chipping on edges (this has been corrected since with a more durable powdercoat)

2. The steering rack would not fully rotate into place; kept hitting the engine mount on the driver's side. So had to dremel out some of the single layer metal off of the side of the engine mount until it fit. Then painted this with the knuckles and sprayed some inner frame rail zinc-based paint inside to seal up any of the welds that may have been missed in the interior of the front crossmember.

3. After installing the rack no real leaks, then a puddle started forming. The rack was rebuilt and there was no sealant around the "adjuster plug" at the base of the pinion housing. So resealed w/ Permatex gear-oil-resistant sealant (because auto trans fluid in ps system). Rented a tie rod removal tool from the auto store and took out the OEM tie rods (no lock washers were used w/ rebuilt rack; only red loctite. Ordered a bunch of crowfoot wrenches 38mm (ps adjuster lock nut), two different thicknesses of 30mm (tie rod and FLCA locknut), 27mm (FLCA). Had a crazy time trying to find an 8-point double square bit, then had a "duh" moment after measuring 1/2" between two faces of the star socket: the adjuster plug just takes a 1/2" square bit or wrench end.

4. installed Parts Shop Max inner tierods w high temp blue loctite (same used on calipers)

5. Steering rack was leaking again, this time at the joint around the pinion housing. So took it out again, got the smaller E-socket set from Harbor Freight (used E10 to remove the three pinion housing bolts). Once apart, it appeared that a gasket was missing, so I just filled in the space and resealed it with the gear-oil-resistant Permatex liquid gasket maker.
With this in again, hooked up the lines w/ new o rings and retorqued steering rack. The front bolts were a little difficult to get in to the steering rack because of the new position of the brackets and the layers of metal in the crossmember, but found the best way was to put bolt up by hand then hold with a finger until a socket could be put on it. Also ended up using a 3/8" extension because it's thinner diameter made it easier to get the angle needed to properly tighten the bolt.

6. Tie rod ends were put on and rack was roughly centered. The steering linkage surprisingly (to me at least) fully seated, despite the steering rack mounting location being moved forward.

...AND then there is the Notorious Brake project.....

A) The caliper mounting ears on this particular V3 knuckle were thinner than the ones that are currently out (and the OEM ones), so washers needed to be used under the mounting bolt heads so that the bolt did not contact the rotors. The bolts were not fully threaded, so cutting was not an option and I did not have time at the moment to order/ go pick up new hardware, but this seems to be okay so far.

B) The ebrake was setup.

C) passenger rear went on well (or so we thought at first). Then the driverside rear flare nut rounded out and had to be replaced (still need to do this). The line will require a new flare nut and should be reflared with an inverted flare tool. The passenger side is now messed up I believe. Here's why:

The stainless braided lines I received from an Australian company (maybe someone can confirm this), but they seem to do their brake lines differently there. The brake lines appear to receive a "bubble flare" on both ends. The part that went in fine on the car was really putting a concave face against another concave face, so not a great seal and probably ruined the line end, since the line is softer than the steel brake line fitting. The other bubble flare end had scored/scarred a ring around the small conical brass fitting that is pressed into the caliper itself- which is an almost obvious sign that this is not going to seal properly. Unfortunately I installed these Australian brake lines on all 4 calipers! Currently only the front brake lines on the car are in decent condition.

WHY SO DIFFICULT?! ugh...so much frustration right now, just want to finish this brake project. If anyone has any working/ undamaged set of 30mm aluminum z32 calipers please lemme know.

I DO have a plan though. I was just consulting with someone today about this. More work, but it may be a solution.

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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by adamky »

You're like the KA-t explorer. Constantly going where no KA-t'er has been before. Sucks about all of the issues with the rebuilt steering rack.

I read one of your previous post about the steering bind. Is this something that can occur on stock spindles and mostly stock suspension control arms? I was doing a U-turn one day and my steering got stuck at full lock for a second. Freaked me the hell out. It only did it that one time, but I never really investigated further to determine the cause.
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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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Thanks Adam, I'm diggin' that tittle, hah.

Steering bind is a super scary thing. It usually is more common when steering geometry is messed with; although, it is possible with mostly OEM components. I would check your "universal joint" (the joint where the steering shaft/column connects to the steering rack) for play or binding.

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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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Wanted to throw some pics up....

This is how the steering rack was sitting after moving the steering brackets forward:

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So had to contour some of the crossmember metal to allow this to rotate upwards into position (actually had to adjust even more before the latest install):

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Then the rack trouble, fixed with a 38mm Sunex crowfoot wrench (so could torque to spec) and a 1/2" torque wrench and some Permatex gear-oil-resistant gasket maker:

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Then installed new tie rods; comparison of OEM (zinc) vs Parts Shop Max (black):

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Once this was back in, guess what?....steering rack was leaking AGAIN! So it was resealed; appeared to be missing a gasket (tools needed: permatex gear oil resistant gasket maker and E10 socket)

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The other weekend the brake project was back online. Got all the pads and hardware installed and we got the e-brake adjusted fairly well with the rear rotors. all of the calipers were mounted (using the two extra washers for the front mounting hardware. So everything was coming long quite nicely. We got the old rear calipers off and it didn't even make that big of a mess; very little fluid came out actually-maybe a spoon full.

The passenger rear went on no problem and then I stripped the flare nut on the driver side rear. Not only this, but by doing so it drew attention to the brake line, which was incorrect.

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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

..

This is a comparison of the "euro" lines (left) and the OEM-style lines (right two):

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Please keep in mind these "euro" lines were for a 240 to z32 brake application. I suppose the "euro lines take a bubble flare fitting and the USDM take an inverted flare fitting?
Anyways, so now the passenger side rear was not going to seal and the base of the flare was most likely damaged from being tightened against an incompatible fitting.

...but wait, it gets better haha.

Not only was the "carside" of the brake lines incompatible, the caliper side was also incompatible AND had a different thread length. For those who don't know, the z32 calipers have a conical brass fitting that goes in the backside to serve as a base for the inverted flare fitting to seal against. Difference in the line shown below; Euro on right, other compatible line on left in pic below, so this is what it did to that brass seat in the caliper:

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Thankfully, it seems as though the length of threads for the front was not long enough to reach the conical brass fitting in the caliper - also troublesome because these were not fully seated, and probably would have leaked, if used.

Front:
Image

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Rear:
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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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Picked up some M10x1.0mm inverted flare fittings at NAPA autoparts. These are different from some euro fittings, because the lip at the base of the threaded portion is recessed to help seat the inverted flare better; also found out 3/16"line is used.

Was having some trouble using a standard inverted flare tool on the car and cutting the line straight, so I caved and bought some stuff (including some copper/nickel pipe; supposedly there are some special considerations when using stainless line: such as it needing to be beveled t a different angle and less workability than the copper/nickel):

Pipe cutter and deburring tool:
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On-car inverted flare tool:
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I HIGHLY recommend these products if one ever wants to do any type of hardline work. There is no scarring like standard flare tool leaves on the line. Here are some pics of the results from testing:

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The plan was to redo both rear lines, which quickly changed, when the brake line started leaking fluid onto all the newly painted surfaces; hoping wiping it off right away and dumping multiple cups of water on the are was enough to prevent damage. Ended up just redoing the passenger side rear line and replacing the flare fitting on the driverside rear flare fitting. Pics of the passenger side rear line:

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Currently working on a solution to the crushed/deformed brass fittings.

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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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Whoa, didn't realize how long its been since the last update. I've been trying to get some stuff done in what free time I DONT have haha.

So about that brakeline situation....

I talked to a hydraulic shop and the guy in there said one option would be to find an NPT fitting that is close to the current size threading, retap the fluid line hole for this and then use a NPT to -AN adapter and -AN lines to a female fitting that would match up with the factory lines. This was a valid way because NPT seals on the threads, not the base. I heard Wilwood uses this setup for their brakes. The other option was to even out the surface around the hole and use a banjo fitting with copper crush washers (given by someone from MAX, but they didn't recommend it).

I wanted to double check the contact to see if the ruined brass seats would actually make enough contact to form a seal with the new, correct-style brake lines. There was still a lot of that "Prussian Blue" contact grease left over from the diff project, so I just used a very thin coat of that on all of the caliper brass seats:

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Although some were questionable, all of them did appear to have a "complete" ring of contact. Whoever has gone through this thread could probably guess, this wasn't convincing enough. So after some internet research, I found some people using "conical copper crush washers" to help with leaks of their hardlines in their powersteering system. I could not find these things anywhere though! I was almost going to just buy some copper and make my own. Someone had mentioned an HVAC (Heating and Airconditioning parts store) online for these and sure enough they had them! I think they are required for refrigerant lines.

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They were 1/4" flare connectors. They came with the fittings or in a pack of 25 (washers only). I opted for the fittings because they were in stock and I wanted to know if they would work asap.
...the fitment :icon-eek: ....unbelievable.

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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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Another flare fitting stripped out on me, so I caved and went out to Harborfreight for their metric crowfoot wrench set and then since the line wasn't long enough to reflare, I went ahead and just made a new line for the driverside front. It was a little offcenter, but the rubber grommet allowed for some error. I heatshinked it too, I dunno why but the factory one had it on it, so just did it anyways.

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Changed out the BMC with a 1" z32 OEM BMC. These actually came with the center flare fitting in the BMC, needed to seat the third line of a non-abs 240. So now I have the extra 240 BMC that I was going to cut open for the flare fitting and the one I just replaced, so If anyone on here needs one please lemme know.

after making a few short brake tube lines and attaching some hose, did the whole bench bleeding thing using a pin punch to depress the chylinder. I had never tried this before and it was weird to me how long it took to complete. The hose furthest away from where I was pushing filled up first, then after a long time pumping another hose filled and shortly after the third followed suit. Had to make sure the hose ends stayed submerged too

**Found the best way to do this was to push the piston in half way and let the bubble rise to the top of the tube arch then quickly depress the rest of the piston to push them out to the reservoir****

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That bottom fitting on the OEM BMC made it a pain to get out past the WG, but it was persuaded out after some convincing words, hah.
Z32 BMC actually has more clearance with the WG than the OEM BMC did; even with the slightly larger bore:

Image

I wanted to note the line placement for those who are or may be doing this for the first time because I was stressing over this with very limited pictures to go off of. Im pretty sure install is much more straight forward on an s13 chassis.

Basically this is what I did:
-traced and labeled all brake hardlines (if nothing else just to be sure)
-made sure there is a large funnel underneath BMC for any drips (after sitting for so long, there wasn't too much that came out of mine) with plenty of papertowels/ rags available for any drips

-I carefully hand-bent the tubing away from existing bends and in larger radiuses, to avoid any possible creasing or pinching of the lines; just slowly and carefully.
-the copper colored tubing is from the driverside front

***I forget what the other two lines are, but they are basically in the same position as OEM: One starts on the fender side of the BMC then goes under the BMC to the front port (I think?!) and then the other attaches to the middle?! maybe?... I'll have to double check this, but basic point is that there are no crazy tricks and it isn't as big of a deal as I thought it would be.

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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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Just unloading posts today to catch up hahaha :mrgreen:

Had to bleed the brakes again because the ONE flarenut that wasn't torqued to spec (yah I know I didn't know these had a spec) left a lovely little puddle; luckily the wheels weren't on at a time.
Guys, I am soo paranoid about this stuff. After tightening this flare nut and rebleeding the brakes, I put paper towels around pretty much all of the fittings and checked on it every day for about a week haha. I'm still watching one of the rear calipers because I had to retighten the caliper/line junction after feeling a very small drop of something wet.

Everything was torqued and started playing around with the alignment; mainly just toe setetings, so it could be driven to the alignment shop:

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Without front speakers and the rear speakers not working too well, no more radio; let the awkward silences begin haha.
No carpet because there is still some work to be done on the floor. There are some options for the dash and I'm working on some solutions for new door panels. One company was suggested by someone I know, but 'm not sure if they would squeeze past the top of the door bars:
http://lrbspeed.com/product-category/nissan/

Playing around with some plastidip on the shift knob, hah what am I doing?!

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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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Changed the oil, siphoned some/ most of the old fuel out, charged battery; standard stuff, then started the engine for the first time in a while:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0ygEdupQes

The alignment was close, but after driving it only in the driveway I wasn't comfortable enough to drive it to the alignment shop, so I guess flatbed it is.

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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

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So a local performance shop did the alignment; still working on tweaking some settings; the front caster on one of the sides will need to change since they are fairly different. This is what the specs are after the first alignment:

Front driverside / passenger side:
camber= -4.7 / -4.69
caster=5.82 / 6.53
toe= 0.13 /0.13

Rear driverside / passenger side:
camber= -1.28 / -1.29
toe= 0.08 / 0.04

We found there is a strange "twitchiness" to the steering. Once it gets past a certain angle, it seems to "pull" itself into full lock; no steering bind though.
I'm thinking that the only thing that has not been adjusted out of OEM position is the front top strut mount. I have sent a few companies emails asking opinions on suspension geometry and am currently awaiting responses; I'll share what I find out.

So just to explain this "pull into full lock" behavior:
when it was on the lift, one could rotate the wheels to a point without the wheel pulling in either direction, but then once it had reached this point/angle in steering, one could almost just give it a little nudge and it would start to move on its own towards full lock.

I really want to move the strut tops out towards the fender for less camber and slightly forward to reduce caster a bit, but first I want to understand this current problem and whether it will affect the normal steering range or not. Any input on this is welcomed :]


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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by adamky »

I just switched from a 17/16 MC to a 1" myself. I'm curious if you liked the change?
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Re: New Project: Mild build

Post by cleantune »

adamky wrote:I just switched from a 17/16 BMC to a 1" myself. I'm curious if you liked the change?
oh nice!

Well I guess it feels better? I have not really had a chance to drive with this new brake setup yet, but it worked great holding the car at a steep angle on the flatbed :mrgreen: .

I've read that some people have used the 240 brake master cylinder (BMC) with just the front z32- no prob
and If i remember some people have used it for setups with both front and rear z32 calipers.

I had the 240 BMC in with the front and rear z32's and I remember reading somewhere that this combo may have even worse pedal feel than the OEM brake system (very little pedal travel/ ability to "modulate" braking pressure), so rather than wait to experience this myself and have to go through brake bleeding an extra time; figured I'd just skip ahead and install the one that is meant to handle the caliper piston volume.

Still going to bleed the brakes again after some miles are put on, but I was really trying to rush to get it to a shop at the time.

In terms of improving feel a BMC brace may be a good idea (**to save time can skip to about 8:30 in the vid):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WllJPetVmaY

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