Supakat's Thread

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BigLoukaT
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by BigLoukaT »

I can't really speak for the jumper settings besides point to diy's settings. But:

Keeping fixed injector timing, I would put in something around 380 (where you had 90 before), and change it to end of pulse. I could give you a more exact starting point if you could tell me about your intake cam timing - when does the intake valve start to open in relation to crank position? From what I've read, the goal of sequential timing would be to allow the fuel to hit the hot intake valve before it opens (0degrees BTDC on the power stroke being the reference point; intake valve beginning to open at 360 and closing at approx 180btdc.

Admittedly though, that does sound worse than I was expecting.

ACTUALLY (wrote all the above before going back to your video)

there is one more thing you need to do to enable individual injector drivers: where it says: injector drivers: standard drivers, change that to additional drivers.

Currently, you are probably only injecting fuel on 2 cyls. Hope that does it!
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by s14fiend »

BigLoukaT wrote:
there is one more thing you need to do to enable individual injector drivers: where it says: injector drivers: standard drivers, change that to additional drivers.

Currently, you are probably only injecting fuel on 2 cyls. Hope that does it!

I was about to say... in the video this guys car sounded like crap while cranking with that change, what does the sequential mode even do? Cause by the video it seemed like it was in cylinder deactivation mode or something lol
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by supakat »

I will have to check this back one day. Seems very odd. Does it say to put additional drivers anywhere in the documentation? I was gonna play with it tonight but went for a drive and did some timing adjustments on the map. I added timing in the upper rpm range after tq raises. The car feels pretty nasty pulling in 3rd and 4th gear.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by BigLoukaT »

Page 70 of the ms2 tuner studio reference manual (msextra.com/doc) says "allows 3rd and 4th injector channels"

You may opt to check with diyautotune directly, but what I think you're doing by moving the jumpers is removing the link between paired injector drivers (in batch, 2 injector drivers are driven by one microsquirt processor pin), so that each One of four injector drivers is tied to one processor pin each. By pairing the injectors via hardware jumpers, mspnp is then allowed to use those two pins for other duties when running batch.
You need to tell the processor (by enabling additional drivers) to output the injector signals on the processor pins.
When the mspnp docs were written, its possible that enabling sequential on the settings also enabled the additional drivers. Latest firmware may have separated that action allowing people like me to use individual drivers but still run batch injection. The docs probably need an update to line up with the latest ms2 extra firmware.
Last edited by BigLoukaT on Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by supakat »

Great work lou. I may try it out this weekend. Thanks for the insight. I need to spend 3 days reading the manual fully to understand the full functions of the ecu.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by BigLoukaT »

sweet supa, hope to hear good news
s14fiend wrote:I was about to say... in the video this guys car sounded like crap while cranking with that change, what does the sequential mode even do? Cause by the video it seemed like it was in cylinder deactivation mode or something lol
Sequential mode allows each fuel injector to be fired on its own, and at a particular crank position. The stock ecu's do this already. It's a way to ensure the fuel required by the next cycle is in place with the latest information engine information (was there a big throttle/acceleration event just then?) and timed in an optimal way (aiming for the fuel to hit the intake valve and vaporize... fuel droplets entering the cylinder is not optimal). It's one thing I gave up when I went DIYPNP and used my stock CAS disk, but have recently bought the 12-1 trigger disk and built the 2 additional injector driver circuits (DIYAUTOTUNE also sells a reasonable add-on board for DIYPNPs to do this as well). MSPNPs have this capability (four injector drivers) built in already.

What I hope to gain and should from running sequential is the ability to idle leaner, and smoother throttle transitions, especially off idle. Pressure in the fuel line is also less affected when firing only one injector at a time versus two (or more). Probably a small difference though.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by supakat »

Got some new shoes... Hopefully I can get a 1.8 60ft.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by supakat »

Was riding on the street this evening and 600cc bike pulled up next to me at the light. Light turns green and I punch it slightly in 2nd and he takes off. I am driving easy cuz this piece of road has police until you get to this one spot before a bridge. As I get to the safe area, I drop it in 3rd and come running up on him. As I am coming up he drops his gear and takes off too. I pulled him about 3 cars. In 4th gear, I held him off. It seemed like I was still pulling but not sure. As we get to the next light, he like damn man, you got me. I couldn't catch up. We gave our respects and parted ways. That felt nice.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by signals13 »

Awesome that's what it's all about, beating bikes lol. Who cares if your a v8 killa, or exotic car killa, bike killa is where you want to be :).
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by SoundEfx »

Nice 600 kill. Now go kill a boosted busa.

Boosted Busa Killa has a slight ring to it.....lol
BBK all day!!!
You might have to tell people that it's not big brake kit though.....lol
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by supakat »

Yuh mad...shoot BBK is at least 1200whp. If I can keep up with a 750, I'll be happy.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by Adrenalin »

Hey supakat, what types are they?
They look sweet.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by supakat »

Adrenalin wrote:Hey supakat, what types are they?
They look sweet.
They grip nice.
http://www.americanmuscle.com/sumitomo- ... 40-17.html
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by Adrenalin »

Wow crazy price. They would be that much for 195/50r16 in Australia. Still I might look at these for my d21.

What width do you run on the front?
How do you find the steering feel.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by supakat »

I actually paid $106 each free ship from Tirerack.com ebay store. I have 245/45 on the front. I removed my power steering and pretty use to it. Not crazy hard but I can feel the road for what it is.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by Adrenalin »

What size steering wheel do you have?
My D21 still has original wheel (15" / 380mm) and no power steering.
Still running 195/14's all round and its already hard work in car parks etc.

That said, I'm considering getting a 14" / 350mm momo steering wheel and change tyres to 225's up front.

I have heard from some people that wider wheels made their car steer easier.
Did you find this the case? I suppose it has a lot to do with wheel offset and scrub radius as well.

Awesome build by the way.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by supakat »

It is a 14" Dino wheel. I don't know about the wider tires making the car easier. More tire is more traction which should relate to more resistance. The key to turning is to start moving the car slightly while turning so it gets easier. I am sure you know this. But if wider stance makes it easier, then yea, I have 17x9 +24 offset. Thanks on the compliments.

I have been wanting to make another video. The car is doing good. I can get in the car and drive without any issues.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by SoundEfx »

Yo Supa, yuh from the islands?

Have faith in your car man, a 750 is nothing.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by supakat »

SoundEfx wrote:Yo Supa, yuh from the islands?

Have faith in your car man, a 750 is nothing.
I'm from PR but my wife's Trini. I'm kinda adopted. Grew up with mostly West Indian friends.

But back to the car thing, 750 is big boy stuff. I ran a 2014 Stang Thursday night by 4+ cars and a Charger R/T with him getting the hit at 50mph while I was in 3rd gear. The car is treating me well but until I kill SC V8, I can't claim V8 killer.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by Kill3rwill »

Hey supa, can you post up a link to your injectors? I'm having trouble finding ev14 style bosch Injectors with a 11mm top o ring bigger than 1000cc. Time for e85!
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by supakat »

They are Bosch Low z 160lb injectors. Since you have MSPNP with PWM Control, it doesn't matter if you get high or low z. Get the best deal and pump corn in that baby!
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by Kill3rwill »

Awesome, I'm going to order some tonight. I saw you have the walbro 400, I'm considering that one as well, but I'm worried it's larger diameter will have trouble in the stock hanger. Did you have any trouble getting it to fit?
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by supakat »

Nope. It fit without any crazy modifications. Make sure you get the e85 420lph pump. The 400lph is not e85 compatible. My boy also runs the same Bosch on his S14 Ka.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by hpipro4 »

hey supa! id love to have a similar setup as yours, do you think the ID 1000 too small for hx40?
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by supakat »

1000cc with 93 pump + meth with an HX40 @ 90% DC with a base of 50 psi in the fuel rail should support 575whp. If e85, max is probably around 400whp as you will run out of injector. You will probably make 575whp around 30psi with that bad boy.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by 240sx-venezuela »

Nice Vids, just curious, how about the sequential injection setup? did you make it work?
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Re: Supakat's Thread

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I read these pages and figured it was not that big of a deal. I thought seq would have more benefits. I did not think figuring it out was worth the hassle.
Performance Applications

Performance applications are somewhat different from stock applications. Rpms are generally much higher, fuel flow rates are much higher and emissions usually take a back seat to power output. As rpm increases, the amount of time available to inject the fuel decreases. This is true whether the system is timed to valve opening or batch fired. The batch fired system has the advantage of being able to inject fuel for the entire period of crankshaft rotation whereas the timed system technically only has the time available that the air is flowing in the intake runner. This is determined mainly by the camshaft characteristics. On an average performance cam having 220 degrees of intake duration measured at .050 valve lift, the sequential system has only 61% of the time to inject the fuel as the batch fired system. As such, true, timed, sequential systems must have larger injectors fitted for a given hp. It should be remembered that there is little airflow and velocity in the port and runner until the valve is open a fairly significant amount. Starting the injection sequence early and finishing late, partially negates the supposed advantages of timed injection. On a high revving engine, there are only a few milliseconds available to inject before the next cycle begins. On the other side of the coin, with batch fired injection, the amount of time that the fuel sits in the port shortens as rpm increases. In the end, there are no significant differences in top end, wide open throttle, horsepower between batch fired and timed systems. We have also not seen any significant differences in fuel economy between the two strategies. Emissions at part throttle are likely to be better with timed injection as this is what it was developed for. On performance applications, emissions are often not an issue and most engines not equipped with a catalyst will not pass a modern emissions standard anyway.
http://www.sdsefi.com/techseq.htm
http://www.vems.hu/files/Port_sequt.txt
http://members.rennlist.org/951_racerx/ ... Firing.pdf
https://www.affordable-fuel-injection.c ... works.html
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by BigLoukaT »

No doubt sequential is mainly helpful at idle/part throttle. I wanted it because I wanted to gain consistency in daily running; untimed injection means any time during the cycle, and injecting fuel on part open intake valves versus closed and able to vaporize the fuel from one start to another is bound to throw afrs off. This may be negligible if you have closed loop O2 enabled, but for the last few years I've been running without and observing any change in running condition.
Admittedly, I also built the sequential mod for my because I thought it would guarantee better throttle response especially at idle tip in, but it wasn't the miracle I was hoping for. I still have a slight hesitation with idle tip in. But it eliminated doubt in my mind and forces me to look harder at TPS AE.
It is also nice to hear my injectors individually again - with batch it sounded like my car was clacking at idle lol.
Keep me in mind if you get bored and feel like trying it out, but I do agree that you'll get no gains at higher throttle and higher pulsewidths.
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Re: Supakat's Thread

Post by supakat »

The only reason why I would go to sequential is for idle control. My car sits around 1000-1100 steady most of the time but then I get some lopeyness once in awhile. I noticed it happens a lot when it is just about to rain after a hot day. But on hot days and at night or in cold weather idle is stable. I also notice that sometimes it will run normal then drops AFR's to 11.2 idling. If I don't do anything after about 5 seconds, EGO control will correct it. I hate running rich. To remedy it faster, I simply hold my foot as the IACV until it clears out after 2-3 seconds.

I have closed loop enabled from idle to 98kPa. I am unsure if the AFR Table 1 will control VE Table 3. I am going to email DIY and see what they say.
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